"Inspired" vs. Copying

Lynnie, what I said was not at all directed to you just because you started this post. You and Shannon and a few others are great. Shannon is always helpful and has great resources on here that she shares with us for free of all things (thank you, Shannon). It's just that there are some seasoned painters on here that truly do make some of the newer ones feel bad for emulating them. (copying, if you want to call it that). I don't think there is a fine line there either. I think an out and out copy is wrong in any situation. But even in the new to face painting section when people ask questions there are times when it seems that the questions are being made fun of or inside jokes between more seasoned painters. If someone doesn't know something, this should be the place they should ask without being made to feel silly. And we should be able to post a pic without being told we copied it, maybe IM the person and ask them if they did it, but not publicly berated. I may have seen something in the past and stuck it in my brain somewhere and that's what came out. I defintely understand when things come out to the same number of swirls and dots and same colors, etc. I wonder who the first person to paint a blue tiger was? and are they upset that so many of paint them now? and rainbow tigers and butterflies. I'm sure they probably thought they had a brilliant and original idea and a best seller, and they were right because they are in almost every face painter's repertoire now.

This topic has left a bad taste in my mouth. I got here thought it was all great sharing ideas and how to tips. Rating different products etc I too thought you all seemed so professional and had a similar artistic passion whether it be face paint or cakes etc.
When I see a picture I think is cool I think wow that's awesome I want to try something like that. I dont like that I now feel like a theif because I want to give something a go. Its like crossing the border I automatically feel like a drug dealer guilty conscience or something I dunno.
But I will never post another artists work and say it is mine. But I do not see the problem of taking one of any of your pics and painting a version on my childs face and using it on my boards. I still dont see the problem. It isnt going to be the same caliber of work and I dont know about the rest of you but I think my lines change on every face I paint as each face is a different shape and therefor each design looks better a certain way in my opinion.
I just dont think anyone really is an original artist either. Everything is inspired by the things you see therefor everything in my opinion is a form of copying and that is why I dont see the problem. I do understand the comments of how they are knocking off each piece saying it is all their own which is just plain out rude to do.

But as a new painter on this forum but no so new painter in general I am like a cat ready to scrap and I dont like it at all. I actually thought of not following this topic anymore several times just because of the bad joojoo emitting from it all.

Face paint.... remember when you first picked up the brush and looked at your finished product ( copied or not) and feeling proud of your creation... can't we just keep enjoying those moments and not worry about who we just pissed off as we post it? And if facebook pages are just for promoting your business then why bother adding people from around the world when they wont be booking you from another country anytime soon. ( well the majority of face painters on here not the upper class ones) I really like how rececca anthony actually says feel free to tag her in her designs when you do them. Maybe she gets a kick outta seeing her bad copy cats or maybe she feels pride over seeing how many people adore her work that much. Either way I think it is a great idea. Maybe others should make a comment on their webpage/fb page to do the same thing at least this way you will be able to keep track who is painting what off of your webpage too then.

I just see copying as a way of sharing the talents of others in more then one location. Why shouldnt kids in canada get a chance at having a cool face from the Uk etc. Its not like your original designs can make it to the whole world at the same time. So if that is what people are still a little PO'ed about then I guess those people will not be on my friends list anytime soon. But if it is an arguement of trying to impersonate someone that I can see a huge issue with and understand the black and white area of right and wrong. Maybe it could be something positive like push you to create more original pieces to keep being the best of the best. Thats what i would hope for... a positive outlook on the whole copying thing. Imitation is the best form of flattery in my opinion but then again I am just a "newbie" what do i know

The simple question of inspired or copied was a good question, but that's not the only think that was brought up. It's cool. We are all human I still would like to see pictures, but I understand why she probably doesn't want to post it online.

I just think this should have been brought to Metina's attention. The finger points should not have been made. It makes us question each other and wonder who this person is that is accused of copying. Of course, we are going to be defensive.

This forum is like a class room. There are going to be a lot of people practicing their designs and posting their work on here. Of course, they are going to start out using the bigger FP designs and posting it here. No, I do not think they should take it out of this forum and use it for their own work.

Lynnie, I can totally understand why this bothers you because she painted it on you first. *hugs* That's really cool!

I just read a Note on Brady Neher's Facebook page about this exact topic. He worded it well amd I encourage everyone to check it out.

I'm a Newbie too and never took offence. This is how we all learn... from each other. We are a tight community that support each other in positive ways, that is why I wanted to be included in this forum. EVERYONE IS AWESOME!

I always say, "why make your opponents (or compeitition) your enemies?" There is so much to learn from each other and with practice, time, and some talent (which we all have or wouldnt be here). We can turn it into something even better!

Never stop posting your work and photos!!!! We are here to support each other! ****HUGS*****

[quote="CottonKandyClown"]Honestly, I find this thread to be unprofessional and not cool at all. Why doesn't this person you are talking about, go to the person who supposedly copied and talk to her? Instead of using someone else to pick a fight? She might have gotten the design from someone else who copied the original This isn't high school. I've always thought this place was a "safe" place for face painters.

I've seen a lot of designs copied and recopied and recopied again. I've recently, seen someone of YT do a design. I thought it was her design, only to see other people doing it. She didn't state that it was her design. Who knows who really came up with it first.

Anyway, I find paint to be a completely different thing. Each painter has their own style so each stroke is different. Am I wrong? In no way can my strokes be just like Brady's. I love his style, but I couldn't copy his strokes perfectly

Thanks Cotton Candy Clown couldn't agree more!

Sorry didn't cut & Paste the quote correctly. I totally agree with CottonCandyClown and no one has the same hand,everyone has their own spin.
I am very happy that we have this forum to "share" our experiences & ideas.For the record there are "newbies' out there that are far more talented & practiced than myself (19 yrs in the business) and am grateful for their pointers as well as veteran face painters. I also want to put out there exactly is a newbie ? I have witnessed The face painting world expolding in the last 10 years..does that mean that "newbies" should all be defined in that timeframe?

I say I'm a 'newbie' because I have only been face and body painting for about 4 months. I was using timeframe. I dont know if anyone else was thinking something else.

Mana..great words of wisdom! Your Avatar is awesome! welcome to the club!

Nope, can't use time frame. If that's the case I have been painting for 41 years. Here's one of my first faces. October 1970. I haven't gotten much better since then. Newbie? Absolutely!!!

https://i.servimg.com/u/f49/16/69/29/00/joey_t10.jpg

Thanks and Thanks, Donna! I am very lucky to have such a supportive husband (he is actually on the forum too...he started FP about a month ago) and he lets me use his back as a canvas on a pretty regular bases.

I love your zebra... Something I will have to try next.

Lynnie wrote:What I find disappointing is that there are several pros and experienced painters on here saying that copying and using it for promo/contest/etc. is NOT okay and the newbies, instead of listening to the opinions and advice on changing the designs to make it your own, are arguing as to why they should continue to copy. That makes me sad.

Welcome to the unpopular side of the fence Lynnie... ain't it cozy?

I've been known to voice my opinions/concerns over heated subjects both here and on email forums and the result is generally the same. It doesn't matter how no-nonsense and concise you make your statement, somebody is going to take offense. Heck, I've even had some of the pros/teachers agree and instead of having that "expert" consensus dampen the flames, it just got nastier.

Here is, again, my take on the whole copying thing. Like Shannon said, if you can copy it directly, then you have the ability to interpret the design well. If you can do that, then you already have the tools needed to alter the design to make it your own. I have a pretty cut and dry opinion about being paid to duplicate another artist's work right from a book; it sends a clear message to others looking to get into your profession. It implies an ease of execution of designs as well as the lack of need of artistic talent. But to each his/her own.

When I first set out to emulate another artist's work, I look to the features of the design that I like. Why? Because once I know what I like about it, I can use it in other ways. If i were to simply copy another artists design, I wouldn't be helping myself develop my own style...I'd just be copying a design. Even if I memorize that design, I'm just duplicating what somebody else did. It doesn't matter if the line quality is weaker than the original...in my mind, I'm still copying their design. I prefer to pick up tidbits from a design and find ways to incorporate them into my own work and having done that, that design is burned into my memory. Once a design I'm pieced together is in my head, I have the freedom to change it on the fly with hardly a thought because I've truly made it my own. I can't get that same benefit from copying exactly. It's always been my experience that people are more impressed when they see you execute a complicated design from your board without having to refer back to it. It's when the client sees you referring to your board or book that they develop the expectation that every dot, tear drop and swirl should match the picture. When I see someone free-styling a design, I almost expect it to be different because it's coming from an artistic guff of sorts...if that makes any sense. I'm big on customer perception and I don't ever want my customers to believe that I don't know my own designs. You can tell the customers who have come to expect the face painter who simply copies a design...their the ones who insist on hold up my design cards while I'm painting ... even though I make it quite clear that I don't need reference material.Some of those same parents are the ones who make comments about not believeing that I can paint all 36 designs on the card without reference...I wonder what they've seen to make them think that it's an impossibility?

Unfortunately, quick and easy is the name of the game now adays and many don't want to hear the complaints of those who've been around a while. I've taken to just limiting what I share and shaking my head when those who lambast me for disparaging copying and stealing photos find themselves on the other end of the stick with their competitioin... Not much else I can do...

Like I stated in an earlier comment, I totally LOVE this forum. I have learned so much in the year that I have been coming on here.

I guess that as in anything else, everyone is going to have an opinion. I think that it is a wonderful idea when the artist who does not want to be copied places a watermart across the whole design. I've seen this a few times. Problem is, you can't even see the design. Certainly no one could copy it. Sorry, that remark was a little off the cuff but certainly meant with no disrespect or anything else intended. Another option is disabling copy and paste, which I am seeing more and more on websites and google images. I think that is great and I really mean that. I think also that we would ALL respect any of our member's wishes if someone asked us not to copy a certain design. It would be hard, because just like everything else, someone has or is probably thinking along the same lines as the poster or the poster has been inspired by someone else as well. I saw a beautiful purple and black butterfly done on the back of one of our very talented painter's daughter. I thought this was absolutely GORGEOUS!!!! And I stlll do. Not ashamed to say it is in my inspiration file and I would love to paint something similar. I looked at Brady's website and lo and behold he has basically the same butterfly design on a model's back, so who copied/was inspired by who? There is no credit given for either. Nobody probably copied at all. People have similar ideas and no one can point fingers. They are both very beautiful paintings and both artists should feel very proud of them.

Some of us are bold, some of us will hold back because of the controversy over this, and I wish it was not the case. I don't really paint to make money. I started doing this for Relay for Life, it was completely voluntary. I had crappy Palmer's paints last year but still did some pretty nice work thanks to this forum even with what I had to work with. This year I have a great kit. The area I live in just will NOT support this as a business. I can make a little here and there, but I work full time and can't go off doing fairs and festivals. I am the painter others hate because some think I devalue their work but there is NO competition around here except the craft paint painters and I don't care if I take their business. If good competition comes in, I will competetively raise my rates. I want to paint the very best I can so I practice alot and get the best supplies I can and add to my services so I can possibly expand in the future, such as hair tinsel and glitter/mica tatts. I love kids and the smile on their little faces when they look in that mirror is absolutely priceless to me and yes, I love the compliments that I get about not having seen face painting like that--ever, and it's thanks to the generous people on this forum and you tube who share their knowledge, techniques and designs so that we can grow and learn.

fluttersby wrote: I don't really paint to make money.

Not to take you completely out of context, but... based on my eons of experience in this industry this does seem to be the "line in the sand" where the pros and the hobbists split on a variety of topics.

Those of us who are face painting (and related services) as the only and/or significant portion of our household income tend to be a tad more possessive of our work and ability to earn a living at it. Those who are doing it for fun, albeit, professionally in that they are paid, tend to look at the rest of us as uptight and aggressive when we get our knickers in a knot about photo theft, plagerism, undercutting and "volunteering" when the clients were capable and willing to pay.

It is a matter of a totally different mindset... if you look at it from the point of view of the person with the stong opinion you should be able to understand where they (we) are coming from. And not take offence as, in reality, it propably isn't about you personally...

I did not take you or anyone else personally. I even thanked you Shannon. You are a great inspiration and I appreciate the help and support you give all of us. I truly wish that I could make a living at this as I truly love it so much. I would do it ALL day EVERY day. I have even said that I do agree. There is a line there though. Complete copying I would never do (and can't) I always make a mistake and have to fix it with something, a dot or teardrop or something and that makes it different. I try to change up the colors even, but sometimes it IS the color combos that draw me to a certain design, for example a butterfly that jumps out because of the colors. It is art, and should not be plagerized. I have not beent trying to make waves, especially since I may be seen more as a "hobbyist" but that's not really how I see myself, although I did not take offense at that. I don't expect to live in this town for much longer and hopefully my next location will support this more at least as a part time business.

I guess my main point is, sometimes it is scary to post something youve painted in fear that someone will say you took it from them. I certainly don't want that to happen. Like I said, absolutely hate confrontation, and would not purposely do that anyway. I just have so much locked up inside my head that something similar to someone else's is bound to pop out. This issue pops up quite a bit and the first time I saw it I was quite new here and it really threw me even though I did understand, but I wondered why we had this forum because I thought it was for helping each other out. Then things got really nasty, which they have not on this thread, thankfully. I almost quit coming on here. I'm glad I didn't. But to a newbie, it is confusing. On one hand, you have people telling you how to do things then they tell you no you can't. I guess it's all in the communication of it. There are people you know you can "borrow" from and some you know are "hands off", and that's completely OK.

No offense was meant - just the terminology to clarify the extremes.

Thing is, if you have something in your head... when it comes out it really isn't going to be an exact copy. And that's perfectly normal, fine and dandy. I don't think anyone should have any issues with that.

Nothing is original, even if it is... it is all derivative.

And... I think that the responsibility also has to be taken on by the original artists too... as, IF they have designs or photos that they would prefer not to be used then they should not post them for people to see. I have some stuff I don't post... but lots of stuff I do.

I can see where it is confusing to a complete newbie but I generally think that most, when they post a photo of a design they copied, are just excited to show that they are indeed able to paint like the artist they admired... or at least complimenting the original artist as obviously they really liked their work...

As in all things ... take what you like and agree with, use it, or, ignore what you don't.

It's rare to find the original of anything. The greatest thing about being human and creating things is the ability to take something, possibly modify it and make it your own, per se.

Walkman > portable CD player > IPod > MP3 player

That was a strecth but I'm sure you get it!

I think there needs to be more understanding as to what is a real copy in the face and body painting world. I would love some clarity

To copy a face painting, wouldn't it have to be the exact paint colors, too? I use 3-4 brands of paints in my designs. I use a different brand white and a different brand black.

Is it wrong if I see a butterfly in a hot pink and blue. Then I use my own hot pink and blue? Whose to say I used a completely different brand color?

What about taking a design and change the colors? Is that still copying? There are only so many ways you can paint a butterfly.

I always add my own flare to my designs. My strokes are different. At less I think they are

I still think "newbie" has nothing to do with this entire conversation, which is where it strayed way off base and into the piss people off category. Being new does not equal zero integrity. Any way you slice it, that sentiment is insulting to a new painter as a person, unless you know them to be of bad moral character individually.

If I read the first post right, the person with bad moral character who copied an original design line for line and then posted it as her avatar after taking a picture of the face in the hallway was a professional painter. If that person was not a professional, and was a new painter, then the element that caused her to make a poor moral choice was not being a new painter, it was being a thief who needed to be introduced to the truth. The rest had a very thin veil on it, IMO.

The only part of me that is "new" is the painting part. I won't need to be a seasoned face painter to understand anything about telling the truth or having moral charachter I can feel good about.

Thanks for being an inspiration Shannon, and not just as a painter and a business person.

Martha- New painter but OLD ethical standards; no lies; stole nothing; never passed off anything as mine that wasn't; "New Professional" but "seasoned person."

My take on it all.......

I think as long as you can paint it, and the person isn't your competition, then paint it and use it however you please. End of story.

Not to be degrading... but this is face painting, not brain surgery. I paint designs, copied/inspired by/original on kids in MY area. If I know how to paint a design that someone in Australia can do and I paint it out on my kids and then add it to my design board for a little 4 year old to love... Then what is the big fat deal?

I do agree that others designs should not be used in competitions and contests. I do LOVE face painting... I love doing a great design on a kid and seeing her smile... That is my reward. The kid nor the parent cares that so and so in Australia originally painted the design... They just like that you are talented enough to do it on their child. I painted my avatar from an instructional video... right after I watched the video. I think I did a great job. A few days later I was at a job and a kid wanted a Cheetah. I did the same design on her.... I scaled it back a bit because of time restraints... but she loved it and the parents did as well. They would care less if it was a design that was not originally mine.

And this is my 2 cents Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though and I stick by the saying... If you paint it out yourself, it is fair game. Don't use others pictures though.

Shannon Fennell wrote:

fluttersby wrote: I don't really paint to make money.

Not to take you completely out of context, but... based on my eons of experience in this industry this does seem to be the "line in the sand" where the pros and the hobbists split on a variety of topics.

Those of us who are face painting (and related services) as the only and/or significant portion of our household income tend to be a tad more possessive of our work and ability to earn a living at it. Those who are doing it for fun, albeit, professionally in that they are paid, tend to look at the rest of us as uptight and aggressive when we get our knickers in a knot about photo theft, plagerism, undercutting and "volunteering" when the clients were capable and willing to pay.

It is a matter of a totally different mindset... if you look at it from the point of view of the person with the stong opinion you should be able to understand where they (we) are coming from. And not take offence as, in reality, it propably isn't about you personally...

***Shannon - never a truer word was said.
We are very lucky to have your eloquence gracing us on this forum.xxxxx

****And Suzy - I can't quote you because I'm technologically challenged - but I agree with everything you said... especially the last line.

**** Oh and anyone who is wondering about the butterfly leg pic in my Gallery it was done with the arc-en-ciel prisma cake by paradise - you could use the 'flash' prisma too as they are pretty similar.
I just used one side o the cake for the top and one side for the bottom... I guess you coulduse any rainbow cake you might have..... I did it just to try out the prisma cake.
If you do copy it ( which you are free to do) please share it with me..... my hubby actually made this butterfly into a logo for my business... so if I end up using it you will be advertising my business by painting it.... hahahahahahahaha! ahhhhhhhh ( I will post the original picture and the logo he made with it later on another thread).

Anybody reading this thread and getting freaked out or confused.... please don't - just continue on doing what you have been doing... feel free to copy my work and share it with me.... some of the work in my gallery has been copied from Wolfe bros and Sean Avrams (?sp?) etc etc so don't look into this thread too much.... and if you have reservations about painting someone elses work - just contact them and ask them- Im sure they will say yes... and if not they will explain why copying that particular pic might not be ok.
( P.S. I'm trying to break the record for longest post about crap ever on FPF!..... I must be close with this one! hehehe

I'm exhausted from reading this thread! I have to go and take a nap.

I've been 'inspired' by many on this forum & proudly painted the work that 'inspired' me & then shared it here and also said thankyou to the facepainter for sharing their work & 'inspiring' me. Daisy & Kim Brennan have been ones to constantly 'inspire' me. I've also been 'inspired' by Wiser Oner & proudly shared here what I painted. Amy Grigg is also someone that is a huge inspiration to me & I have painted a design of her's & proudly shared it here I also shared it on FB & tagged her in the pic & she was thrilled with how it turned out. I don't feel I'm doing the unethical thing & certainly won't shy away from being 'inspired' in the future. I feel my face painting has really grown due to being 'inspired' & I have become confident enough to step out & paint my own designs one in particular is Mario that I painted for a boys challenge here & won the challenge, if the truth be know I was 'inspired' to paint that design by my son & used a pic from the cover of his playstation game as reference. I have seen on FB that Clayton had added Mario to his fp board & someone had said wow great design where'd you get it. And he said oh someone on the FPF I made a comment & said oh that's me. And he thanked me for sharing cause he & his mum were going to make alot of $$$$$$ out of it this summer. Am I offended NO WAY. I'm flattered that I could 'inspired' someone. As most here know Clayton is always giving & sharing his 'inspirations' on youtube whether they be his own or 'inspirations' from others. I think it's all about sharing.

I feel the moral thing to abide by is don't use other's pics as your own, just be 'inspired' by them. And if you feel confident enough to enter a competition allow your creativity to shine through.

Peace, Love & Happiness to all. xoxoxoxo

Mandi, thank you for bringing up that point. I LOVE that we are all sharing and in the sharing have made the world of face painting a more beautiful and professional place.

This is why I've enjoyed entering Clayton's contests and coming up with "original" designs for them. The little hummingbird that I developed took me about 3 hours. Not 3 hours to copy a hummingbird, but I wanted to create the one-stroke, usable, repeatable, step-by-step version of the hummingbird that I could use in my business....and others could use in their business.

Took me another 2 hours to come up with the tribal dragon that I use in my face painting business that takes me 1 minute and looks fantastic on the face. It's still evolving and changing but it started by wanting to do a quick version of a Pashur dragon. I'll probably do a YouTube video soon to show it.

The video that I did for quick graffiti was actually inspired by Wiser but you can't tell it from the finished design...again, I wanted something I could do in 5 minutes or less for fairs and big parties. I can't do his designs in 5 minutes and I don't think he can either...so I adapt and share.

The dolphin I made a SBS of and shared here has been developed by watching videos from 4 different people. When I made it the way that was duplicatable and repeatable, I shared. It worked for several people and it makes me very happy to see them use it.

My point in all this is I'm sharing the designs with the world and other face painters because I'm giving back. I've mentioned this before but I REALLY appreciate Heather, Lisa JY, Clayton and Vi for their YouTube videos and great painters like Pashur, Wiser, Rebecca, and Mark Reid (who told me I should be teaching the calligraphy class!) that I had the privilege of learning from in Las Vegas this last year.

I hope we all are willing to share our designs and we all become better for it. Honestly when I see a "professional" show-off type design I'm thrilled but will probably never use it in my business or copy it, I might do a version of it to share on my website to show I CAN do it but it's really not practical.

I LOVE the quick designs (under 10 minutes) and especially one-stroke that is repeatable over and over again with fantastic results. These are the type of designs that I hope we can all share and elevate the whole world of face painting. Think how far the art has come in just a few years.

Because of the internet and the sharing of the talents of others I have people consistently come up to me and say "you are an ARTIST!" It's not because of the specific design...everyone has different tastes but because I can twist a brush and create a snake or flick my wrist and make a beautiful princess crown.

The simplest litmus test that I can find for all of this is the Golden Rule. It's a standard used by all cultures and all religions in some form: Don't do it if you wouldn't want someone to do it to you....do for others what you expect others to do for you. Simple.

D.

SuzySparkles wrote:My take on it all.......

I think as long as you can paint it, and the person isn't your competition, then paint it and use it however you please. End of story.

Not to be degrading... but this is face painting, not brain surgery. I paint designs, copied/inspired by/original on kids in MY area. If I know how to paint a design that someone in Australia can do and I paint it out on my kids and then add it to my design board for a little 4 year old to love... Then what is the big fat deal?

Someone sees the light. Whew.

If any newbies are out there reading, do whatever you need to do to get better...emulate, copy, etc etc. If you're in the business you know that your primary job is to keep regular kids/people/customers entertained using face painting as a medium. If you publish pics to sell yourself to clients, make sure you represent your work realistically, and use photos of your own craftsmanship.

It's paint that washes off before the person goes to bed at night. It isn't even around long enough to be worth arguing artistic principles over, except as parlor conversation.

And if anyone ever gives you a hard time over your work being derivative....or worse yet, copied, tell them to get bent. Life's too short.

Besides, people are still doing paint by numbers reproductions of the Last Supper centuries after it was painted, and I'm pretty sure the instructions don't say that you have to write "inspired by Michelangelo" at the bottom so everyone knows you didn't really create it.

Except for the challenge of it, I can not see the fun copying others designs.
I don't mind people try my designs (I make more than I can use anyway), but I have mixed feelings if people enter them into competitions or make step-by-step pictures. Maybe because I think that what one should enter competitions with is ones own designs. But I know that often the rules don't say anything about it.
If they use it on jobs, great, everyone is different anyway because of head shape and all that. If they post pictures online, I am happy if they mention the inspiration, but that is it.

That it is "only" temporary, is not an argument for me if it is art or not. If someone paint a picture and burn it after, is it not art? When someone play a song, is it not art if it is not recorded? (and is facepaint then art, if a picture is taken?) How long should something be in time, before it is art? More than 24 hours? A year?

I am not saying that all facepaint is art, like not all music, all things written down or every little ink drawing is. But when there has been put a lot of thought, research and preparations into something, does it matter that it only take five minutes to do? Again: music for example. A song takes a lot of preparation, if someone can do the same music after hearing it (and studying it), does it give them the right to do as they please with it?
Like an egg of Columbus, something can be very simple, but if you are the first to think it, doesn't that could for something?

There is also the debate if it is craft or art, but is that important? If someone has a signature style, being a facepainter, chairmaker or composer, the line between craft and art is blurred, because what is art? Does it has to be something made only to please the maker? Because there goes a lot of paintings, sculptures and so. Not very much is not craft in one way or other, but is that a bad thing?


(I have not have time to read what everyone has written in this thread, so sorry if I have just repeated what others have said)