"Inspired" vs. Copying

a face painting mom wrote:When it comes to posting a picture, or using a design in a contest or for profit or promotion of your own inspiration, that is very different. If you paint something to enter into a contest, or you put something out there to teach, or write a book, or make a video, you need to be original or cite your sources (just like writing a paper in college, you cannot copy someone without citation, or that is plagerism)

The issue for me is that these two things are tossed into the same generalized category of "copying" The kid in my chair does not need me to tell her that her mask was inspired by Marcela Murad, or that what I am painting is nearly exactly the same thing I saw her post on Facebook last week, but if I paint her design and take a picture of it, I should not publish it at my original work in a contest, sell myself as the creator of this design for my own promotion as a face paint design creator, or offer to teach a class on how to paint it. If I post a picture of it on my website to promote my skill as a painter for hire, that is fine. I list Marcela Murad as a painter who has been influential to me, and that is exactly what she is.

JennyNixe wrote:GC, I think those are good guidelines. Just a couple of questions -- what if a design is copied from another form of media? Are we going to start crediting Disney and DC Comics?

JennyNixe wrote:And also, who is expected to follow them? I've seen some of the folks complaining loudest about this issue have no qualms about posting unattributed photos of copies of other people's work.

JennyNixe wrote:Lady Jayde,

You seem to have a rare talent of putting words in my mouth. It's not a question of right or wrong, it's a question of effective ways of dealing with a problem. I have never advocated ripping off someone else's design for competition. What I'm advocating is putting your big girl panties on and dealing directly with people instead of all this passive aggressive nonsense. That is what successful adults do. Unfortunately, you and others use this I'm-not-being-unwelcoming-but-I-really-don't-want-you-here and ganging up and ridiculous ideas like you need to "cite" every design you use. Tell me, every time you've posted a pic of Spider-Man, or Batman, or even that Lisa Frank unicorn everyone does, do you cite Todd MacFarlane? Or Lisa Frank? No, you don't. But by God, you're going to put those rules on new face painters -- anything to raise the barrier to entry.

See, I don't think these discussions educate or stimulate anyone on anything but the preferences of a vocal few. Sadly, that vocal few think the way to succeed is through social pressure and anti-competitive behavior. We all learned by copying, we all use the designs of others, but somehow that's now only acceptable with additional unrealistic procedures. We all learn better in classes, but somehow it's no longer acceptable to teach classes and "train the competition". Every book on running a small business tells you to set your own prices, but face painters are pushed to charge what everyone else is charging because "undercutting is unethical" (never mind that price fixing is illegal). If somebody is charging less than you, there must be a sinister reason why, and you speculate about it unabashedly. Even volunteering is suspect. These things do not help our industry. They don't help new painters become proficient painters. They don't foster innovation. They are the actions of people who don't choose to compete on merit. They don't choose to compete at all, just sabotage others. And that is, sadly, behavior that many women feel comfortable with.

In answer to your question, if you're competing in a competition against someone who's cheating (in any way), the correct thing to do is bring it to the attention of the judges. Gossiping and rounding up a posse to go talk to the teacher is juvenile and unproductive -- it takes way more time and energy than being direct. It's not either act like a 13 year old OR let it go. You have other choices.

CottonKandyClown wrote:I don't know...this still leaves me thinking...

Are we clear that the robot caged Ursala was an inspired design or a copy? It's no where near a copy(maybe a copy of the idea).

I'm just trying to think about it a little more. I've seen a lot of the same body painting ideas like jungle themes with parrots/birds, football uniforms, etc.

Valerie A wrote:For what it's worth, I saw someone outside Grauman's Chinese Theater in Hollywood twelve years ago in the same cage set up as these pictures...

Shannon Fennell wrote:I have to say that I started out copying ... but, I did my usual of drawing the design onto a template, colouring it, then using that as my reference to paint so most of my very early work is more "inspired" than copied... although I admit to copying on occasion but don't generally publish those photos.

It is a learning process, always has been... doesn't matter if you are painting or performing an autopsy, your first attempts are copies of someone elses work. You follow diagrams, written instructions, photos, etc. We all have done it.

Where the problem is now, IMO, is that people don't understand that the artist who originated a work is the owner of it. I think the internet is responsible for this in that they have no concept of copyrights. Books have copyright notices in them, the internet doesn't, even though copyright DOES apply to all photos and works published on it. People think if it is there they can use it.

And then there is the little knowledge is a dangerous thing theory - they've heard of copyrights and get that if you are the photographer you own the photo, so they then interpret that as meaning if they take a photo they then own it and can copy what is in the photo.... without regard for the origin of the content.

Copying EXACTLY has always been a touchy subject for a lot of artists - I remember several years ago someone copied a fantastic Australian artist's cats and posted them to a Snaz contest... they were such close copies that she had to double check them herself and she was very upset by it. Those should never have been entered IMO... contests should be for original work, not exact copies of another artist's designs.

I've seen on a painter's webpage (from the UK) an EXACT,, right down to the number of dots, copy of another of the same artist's designs (alien three eyed dog) ... if you can copy that well why not at least paint it another colour?????

As someone who has a step-by-step book published I see copies of the designs from the book all over the place... but, that was the purpose of the book and I get a kick out of seeing how the designs look when painted by someone else. Technique and ability levels vary so they can look very different.

I've always thought that if a person was capable of painting exact copies of another person's work they should be capable of making changes to it before publishing it as their own.

And when you have copied it exactly you KNOW you did, and using it for promotion or entering it in contests is... well, pretty close to just stealing the photo in the first place.

I've got no issues with inspiration or similarities, but EXACT copying and using it publically is really nervy.

Personally, this is how I see it: If I have put out a step-by-step of something - knock yourselves out copying it right down to the number of flakes of glitter... those are images that I've put out there expressly for copying. I don't need acknowledgement or credit for the designs in any way.

If I've posted a photo on my website or blog or facebook, or on a forum... use them for inspiration by all means but I would be a little annoyed to see exact replicas being used for promotion, advertising or being entered in contests without being changed in some way.

Take what you like about them and do your own thing with them. No acknowledgement is required.

What has been published in instructional books, well... the books are copyrighted not the designs but paint it yourself and use the photos, not the book, to copy from! That will help get the images to be more Inspired by instead of just another copy.

And never, ever, use MY photos without my permission... I have on occasion given it, more often not, but it doesn't hurt to ask. And the face painting mafie is everywhere... you'd be surprised. I've has people contact me from other countries to let me know my photos were being used....!

As to local clientele and the public not knowing we copied a design... that's fine, as long as you painted the photo on display and are capable of doing it again ... I admit to some strongly inspired photos on my display, but they are my work and I can paint them without any hesitation on request.

And I personally feel that putting notes on the photo display giving credit to someone else is useless. The people looking at your display have no interest in that information... all they want is what they see painted on their face.

I too have saved photos of really really cool designs... and most I have no idea who painted. But, they are for inspiration only and reference if something comes up that they will be helpful for - as an example, a photo of an excellet Husky was really useful to me designing Wolves for a play - the placement of the mouth and nose helped me get the look right without me having to mess around with trial and error. And no, it wasn't a Wolfe design!

Have I rambled on enough?