Oh No! Tag Neons!!

There seems to be many Paradise users among experienced painters, from what I can understand(?) Like Jinny and Mark Reid.
Personally I get a headache from the smell, but others love it. I do like the colours and cover =)

Great to hear Lonewolf - I'm on the right track then!

You poor thing - you get a headache! The orange is awefully dull - although I do use it for a shade in my pumpkin and also for my icecream cone. the other colours are find though and I do love Paradise.

Australia follows EU standards TAG DFX and Wolfe come out of the same factory in China.

AUSSIE3070 wrote:All I have to say is "Made in China" - those 3 words alone scare me!

Living in Australia, almost everything in shops are made in China and these products are usually cheap, cheap, cheap! I question what standards TAG meet? If it compares to other 'made in China' products, the standards are LOW to NON-EXISTANT!

I'm only a beginner, but my gut instinct says . . .better to be safe than sorry.

Ii have used TAG at a recent school fete - the kit was supplied by the school. I voiced my opinion but as the school has a small budget they went with the cheapest.

Can anyone tell why Paradise isn't more popular amongst the experienced USA painters? I would be interested on your thoughts????

I use Paradise, I have some Tag for neons and metalics, as Mehron either don't make them or they suck.
( except the metalic powders which rock!)

I must say if I did a school fete and they had Tag I would do a dance of joy!!!
They did not pick the "cheapest option".... that would be derivan, in fact derivan would be the cheapest AND the easiest to obtain.
You were damn lucky that they had TAG.
Paradise is awesome, but it has some issues with perfumes and some ingredients which means some people are sensitive to them, particularly the smell... which I love.

You should not shy away from something just because it was manufactured in China, ou cannot assume all products are the same crappyness just because they came from the same country.
Tag and DFX and wolfe for that matter are made to very specific standards, or they cannot be sold in the USA or EU or Australia. They are also made there to keep them affordable for all of us. I cannot buy from Merhon directly as they will not ship internationally, so I have to order from someone here and pay the shipping twice..... so... $19 for a cake of Paradise or $8 for a cake of Tag...... really I would love all my paints to be Paradise, but at that price.... prisma cake $28??!!!..... well there has to be a happy medium.
I am a HUGE paradise fan, my original kit was the double pro pallet..... but do not dismiss Tag as a bad paint... it's really fantastic, and I think you did the school a disservice for having a go at them when they bought professional paints for you to use..... Damn I wish my daughters school would do that!!!!

I agree with Tash. China has been known for cheap "made in China" products, but are now in front of the industrial development, but guess other countries - that are competing with them - are not so happy to declare that.

Tash wrote:
I must say if I did a school fete and they had Tag I would do a dance of joy!!!
They did not pick the "cheapest option".... that would be derivan, in fact derivan would be the cheapest AND the easiest to obtain.

DANCING WITH JOY!! Gotta luv TAG!!! New T'shirts: I (heart) TAG!

And I can now declare there is something readily available and cheaper than Derivan!
Mont Marte Body Art! at $3.50 AUD a pop!
I'm working on some more info (allergies, staining, staying power etc) for another thread, should be up by friday!

I would have to say too that probably 90% of the products consumed in the US are made in Asia and most of them are fab. I don't know what I would do without all of the electronics. You certainly can't get the quality and price mix with stuff made in America(I am American and am aloud to say this) LOL.

I have a neighbor that ribs me for using paints made in China and I just tell her to stop following the masses of folks who believe everything the media says and do some research herself.

-Metina

I agree with Tash - I would be over the moon if my daughter's school had provided TAG paint for the fete! We were provided with a quantity of Derivan face paint purchased more than a year ago specifically for the fete - the large jars were bought with the intent that it would last for years (guess what, it doesn't). I used my own Tag and Paradise paints for the fete this year. I might have been able to convince the school to buy proper facepaints if they hadn't paid so much for the large quantities of Derivan that they still have!

I won't comment too much on the neon issue other than to say that it seems the formaldehyde is there as a preservative at appropriate preservative levels - used in preference to alternatives such as the parabens (hydroxybenzoates) because it enhances the neon effect.
The issue seems to be with the inclusion of certain PIGMENTS which are not approved in all countries for use on eyes and/or lips.
I think this issue has been raised before with the whole 'don't use red facepaint on the eyes' (well at least not the ones containing FDA approved reds which aren't specifically approved for the eyes).
If you read the legislation regarding the FDA approved colors for cosmetics, the majority of them are approved for cosmetics, but NOT SPECIFICALLY for use around the eye area or lips (which means they are NOT approved for this use). Taking this literally would actually mean that no-one should apply any of the approved facepaints on or near the eye areas or the lips - mainly because the labelling usually lists all of the colors/pigments that are in one or more of the paints. Some of these are approved for cosmetics (but not the eyes and lips) and I wouldn't like to guess which ones were in each paint color.

Sorry, I got carried away and did comment more on the neons issue than I planned to. I hope this helps some of you understand this issue a little better - from my point of view, anyway.

I have been crazy busy with work but wow...some interesting posts have been added on here. This is what I have found but, it has no bearing on my personal opinions.Though I do think each of us need to simply ask ourselves what the target audience is for you and that seemingly will help you in your decision...again not my opinions so don't hate me...just relaying the information that I used to help myself determine my products.

I spoke with a couple of places. In regards to FDA compliance...did you know if you cut and make your own cakes that you are not probably following FDA rules? There are restrictions on handling cakes. You are supposed to have special tools, hair nets, sanitized surfaces and so on. So, if you make your own cakes in effect you are manufacturing, then you are actually breaking FDA guidelines for the FDA approved products that you are trying to use. Seriously...I did not know that.

I was also informed that mixing paint brands is listed as such because of the chemistry of the products. If you use three brands of paints, they all say do not use with other brand products on the back, as that if you do you are "mixing" chemical compounds. So, if you make cakes with several brands in them then you are really messing up the FDA compliance in your paints. Also none of the paint manufacturers will back up the product if you don't use it properly. So if little kelly gets a rash and you mixed three paints then who is to blame? Well the painter for not following the non mixing guidelines on the back of each cake. ( I have every brand of paint they make)

I found out a bunch of information on the Neons. So much in fact that I can't post it all. I might just type it up and if someone wants it I can send it through private email to you. It is America...God bless us we can make our own decisions ....body artists probably get off easier here with that than say us kids' face painters. Here is something I received. ...

Yes the UV/NEONS/Day Glow are a real hot ticket, we wanted to make cakes but compounds required to make neon’s are not FDA approved, they do not make our grade kids safety 1st.. Most who mfg. such paints- take a look on package read: For hair and special effect use only conforms to ASTM D 4236 (this is the same label that appears on sharpie markers- but you would never use a sharpie marker on your face or body) do not use near the lips or eyes, or children under age of 8. Other Face paint also list EU cosmetic policy, they list this for the fragrance that is in the product, reason for fragrance in face paint, after a bit some of ingredients used sour would smell without a fragrance in paint. If folks would take the time to look up safety codes and what compounds are in the product they use, there would not be all the speculation. There is a company who uses a compound- Squalane it comes from shark cartilage...

I agree that special fx is a variable on this. It should be listed up front and not as a surprise on your package though. I discussed with someone that stated that it was the pigments in particular that was causing the issues. That is what makes them so vivid and bright.

At that I leave the information up to whomever wants to use that for whatever decisions that they need or want to make. Please no hate mail to me....just posting what I have discovered. Not saying that you need or have to do any of it or part of it. Just that it is there.

Squalane can also be sourced from Olives - only the manufacturer knows for sure which type they get though (which is why to ask them to be sure....)

I am pretty sure if this person said it was from Shark that it was. But, I did tell him that I would refrain from placing his name on the forum directly. I personally have not checked into all of the ingredients from everyone. It makes me glad that I am a painter and not a manufacturer for certain LOL!

Honestly you may have put worse on your skin really, I don't know. There was this big thing with embryos a few years back any one remember that? It was in shampoos and night creams or something like that.

I think the pigment itself is the bigger concern...but, all the thinking seriously boggles me. I just want to buy paint and paint. I do think even if it were more costly that I personally would buy it if it were safe for kids.

Thanks for the research, Terina... definitely food for thought.

Terina wrote:
I was also informed that mixing paint brands is listed as such because of the chemistry of the products. If you use three brands of paints, they all say do not use with other brand products on the back, as that if you do you are "mixing" chemical compounds. So, if you make cakes with several brands in them then you are really messing up the FDA compliance in your paints. Also none of the paint manufacturers will back up the product if you don't use it properly. So if little kelly gets a rash and you mixed three paints then who is to blame? Well the painter for not following the non mixing guidelines on the back of each cake. ( I have every brand of paint they make)

So the Silly Farm rainbow cakes are not following FDA rules

SIlly farm is...which is why they claim the prices are higher b/c heather has a special sanitized room and follows the regulations in order to do them

Oh yes, I am sure that silly farm is doing that. I love them! They are totally awesome. I think that is probably referring to the average person making their own...like myself I mean I usually buy the SF ones but there have been times that I have made my own cakes. I have a "clean" workspace. But, I didn't realize their were FDA rules on that. I just found that interesting. I am sure that any manufacturer is following guidelines for not mixing the proper cakes. Sorry I didn't mean to confuse anyone on that information. I just found it interesting that I personally have been trying to follow FDA guidelines and messing them up by making my own cakes.

I don't really think there is FDA police out there or anything...or maybe there is? I don't know. So, I am not certain that it is even really an issue...I just found it interesting that I am trying so hard to "follow the rules" and still was doing something considered wrong lol. I have made lots of my own blends of cakes over time. I like certain colors. If I had the time I would have been making more... so just food for thought on that issue.

[quote="Tash"]

AUSSIE3070 wrote:All I have to say is "Made in China" - those 3 words alone scare me!
..... but do not dismiss Tag as a bad paint... it's really fantastic, and I think you did the school a disservice for having a go at them when they bought professional paints for you to use..... Damn I wish my daughters school would do that!!!!

Well I am certainly glad that my comment has generated this debate! We got some great info also - thanks!

Tash - I do NOT believe I "did the school a disservice"! Like you, I am entitled to my opinion and I was supported in it by another face painter at the school! It was them that referred to it as "the cheaper option" AND just say I wasn't supported, that would be ok too! As long as no mud flies, no names are called and no jugement is made, everyone's opinion is welcome. I did NOt "have a go at them" either . . . I think I have to be careful with my wording next time!

I was happy it wasn't Derivan or God forbid this new Monte brand!

It was just the point i was trying to make, in my former post.
When you make a 'homebrew' cake, made out of different brands, you do not follow fda rules. Some companies do that! in a second your FDA approved paint is non-fda ..
Also, it is one of the reasons, we as paint company, ( as our collegues) do not make our rainbow cakes/splitcakes 'at home'.
we have to be sure, it is made with extra care. There is lot to be taken care of befor we can produce a new color.
Also, a lot of our customers do make their own cakes, but that is for personal use, not for resell. ( like using for shows and festivals).
I have seen awesome combinations, that are so great, but we could never take in production. We do enjoy seeing people making their own split/rainbow cakes. As long as you use it in a clean and wise way. ( clean, hygienic etc)
oh.. and not use to much water, to close the rigdes.. that can cause germs to grow.. and that can cause for all the brands ( TAG, DFX, and the others) to go wrong.. just a little tip..

Oh and another thing, why would products from china or taiwan be such bad products? because it is a bit cheaper? Be glad we are.
I see some products produced in eastern europe, that are really bad. but it has the label 'made in europe' on it. So you in the US think it is a high standard product, and it is made in poland or somewhere else on min. money?

I know the quality we work with, is high standard, the people work with care and devotion to their products. Yes the factory is probably the same as TAG or Wolfe, but we all have our own ingredients and colors.
( Like TAG's new colors, we don't have them! ( as much as we love to see them!) We have Neon FDA approved, TAG does not and so on.. )
TAG is Austrialian, we European. I even believe that Eulenspiegel comes from the same factory as we all.
So their you go, a good German company ;D

DFX and althoug i can't speak for TAG, i'm sure they feel the same way, is happy that we can offer nice and good paint, that everybody can buy, at reasonable prices and offers a lot of fun for everybody.
( sorry guy's, i had to say that)

Talk about much to do about nothing. I really think we are making WAY, WAY too much out of this. Let's just paint!

Could not agree with you more!

Exactly... You do all realize that the amount of use the average time these kids will have paint on... there is nothing to worry about. You would have to wear neon paint every day all day... for... I don't know how long... If anything, worry about the painter more than the paintee. We have much more exposure to it than any of our customer EVER will.

Personally, I have tried neons and can do without them. I prefer the metallic colors because they blend so great and go on so easily.

All good . . . it's an interesting debate though and I like to see everyone's opinion.

As Metina points out . . . a debate does, however, need to end at some time . . . and one thing we can ALL agree on is . . . "LET'S JUST PAINT" !!!! to quote the wise Metina!

Clayton - love your work and committment to face painting. You are an inspiration to so many - me included! Oh yeah, and you ARE FUNNY! Love your humour in some of your videos! Keep up the great work!