Would you buy natural or organic facepaint??

So with recent discussions about neons, FDA approval, ingredients I've been wondering whether the face painting industry is ready for more natural products. I've been living green for well over a decade and in that time I've seen organic and natural products move from being quite obscure to being mainstream. There are now so many different natural or organic make-up and cosmetic ranges and some of them actually really work, although they still seem to cost more. I pay it because I believe in sustainable living and I'm also a realist - I believe money talks and if big business sees consumers spending money on certain products their production swings towards those product lines...

Which brings me to face painting. I put very little stock in FDA approval BUT as facepainters it seems we do want FDA approved products because we want to be sure we are using safe products on kids skins. So my reasoning on that leads me to believe that maybe the industry is ready to start researching more natural paints because modern painters and modern parents care about ingredients and product safety.

So I was wondering about an open letter to the companies? Like a petition of sorts? How many would sign?? And would you pay the extra? I honestly believe if there was enough interest expressed then companies would produce these products, cause the reality is it is supply and demand so there needs to be a demand before they supply it....

I do not put much stock in "natural" and "organic" labels. There have been so many news stories/studies/tests that show so called "organic" produce/meat is just as contaminated as the other stuff.

I grew up on a farm... we raised our own veggies, pigs, chickens, beef steers... and I grew a lot of our own food when we lived on the coast as organically as I could but there are some things that need an additional kick.

There are lots of "natural" things out there that are not... herbal supplements full of weeds and fillers, things like that.

I'd rather buy cosmetics from a factory that got the testing done and got approved by the government and/or regulatory bodies.

I'm a cynic... I know a lot of the government testing is as inaccurate as the labelling by the companies...

In Europe there are brands that are making "safer" paints - Grimas has their "Pure" line which contains no preservatives or parabens. I've used it... and won't waste my money on anymore. It does not work as well as their regular line of paint.

If, and I mean IF, a manufacturer could come up with a product that would work the same as what I like now, then I might consider using it, but the cost has to be comparable.

I use cosmetics that are approved for use on the skin and there is not a constant exposure issue. So, it really is not a big concern to me... they aren't wearing it every day, they aren't eating it (I hope).

This is face paint... it is optional. Not a requirement of life like food and water.

And there is no way, even with the purest most natural thing going, that you would have a 100% safe product for everyone so as long as we are educated ourselves and make the effort to educate our clients and customers about what IS safe I feel comfortable using what I use.

Shannon Fennell wrote:

And there is no way, even with the purest most natural thing going, that you would have a 100% safe product for everyone so as long as we are educated ourselves and make the effort to educate our clients and customers about what IS safe I feel comfortable using what I use.

I know that you have educated many (most) of us on here about so much that I reckon if a company did come up with a formula that you should probably be given the first batch to test before it went to production.... I am also quite cynical about labelling etc and I know that many herbs are quite dangerous so natural doesn't always = safe, and as a result of learning from people like you and Lone and others on here I am comfortable that my paints are ok for kids. But when I look around my house they are the least natural thing and I must admit I still paint myself pretty much every day so I wonder about that sometimes.

I would love for there to be a face paint that was free of petroleum products, but it would have to work well and not bring about allergic reactions for myself and most other people. It's not about the "natural" or "organic" label necessarily, but there are a lot of petroleum based ingredients in face paints that I would really like to get away from.

As far as meat goes btw, it's not about contamination, it's about not overusing antibiotics and feeding them non-GMO foods. Yes, I'll pay extra for that.

Perry Noia wrote:
As far as meat goes btw, it's not about contamination, it's about not overusing antibiotics and feeding them non-GMO foods. Yes, I'll pay extra for that.

Did you see Marketplace's show about the antibiotic resistance bateria on chicken? They bought chicken from different stores in different cities from different companies, both regular and organic labels. ALL of them had between three to nine different types of resistant bacteria (including salmonella, ecoli, etc.) Including the organic... they went to an organic chicken farm and the owner said that they don't give antibiotics to their chicks, but their eggs arrive ALREADY injected with antibotics... so even the organic raised chicken has been treated.

I think the antibiotics and steriods in beef is why I can't eat it anymore. But I eat a lot of chicken... At least properly cooking it kills the bacteria, but there is contamination of surfaces where you handle raw chicken that's a concern.

JBM wrote: But when I look around my house they are the least natural thing and I must admit I still paint myself pretty much every day so I wonder about that sometimes.

Yeah [sigh] over the years I've had to stop using some cosmetics - mascara was the first to go. Now, while I do paint my face all the time I tend to avoid my eyes as everything seems to irritate them now. And it is a progressive thing... I have to cut back more and more. Pretty soon it will be just cheek art!

yes, I did see that about the chicken...the problem is, all of them are processed in the same places and it is the overuse of antibiotics all over the world that is creating resistant bacteria, they will end up there no matter what. I buy the antibiotic free as a statement that I am willing to pay extra for that... same as she is saying about the paints.

None of the Above:
I wouldn't buy organic face paint because I've never seen it tested for safety, is made w/ ingredients that stain worse than regular face paints, & is impossible to work with.
None of the options you offered in your poll fit my feelings, sorry.

Linda its more a hypothetical question..like if a real company like Snaz or Wolfe or DFX realised there was a demand and created a paint that was more natural.... obviously it would have to be tested, certified, and it would have to work.. would it be worth it??

I understand where you are coming from but I absolutely agree with Linda and Shannon. I grow all my own...everything. I get my meats and eggs from a friends farm so I know what goes into it and I come from a family of hunters and fishermen. I've even make my own cough syrup.

However, I don't trust any gov't labeling. There is a good shot that organic products would still have chemical preservatives, or else they would grow bacteria easier. I've seen more allergies to natural products than chemical ones when speaking topically. I don't even use natural hair brushes because I know people who would have a reaction to their use (my bro-in-law).

Sorry but my answer is no. I prefer the devil I know over the devil I don't.

JBM wrote:So with recent discussions about neons, FDA approval, ingredients I've been wondering whether the face painting industry is ready for more natural products. I've been living green for well over a decade and in that time I've seen organic and natural products move from being quite obscure to being mainstream. There are now so many different natural or organic make-up and cosmetic ranges and some of them actually really work, although they still seem to cost more. I pay it because I believe in sustainable living and I'm also a realist - I believe money talks and if big business sees consumers spending money on certain products their production swings towards those product lines...

Which brings me to face painting. I put very little stock in FDA approval BUT as facepainters it seems we do want FDA approved products because we want to be sure we are using safe products on kids skins. So my reasoning on that leads me to believe that maybe the industry is ready to start researching more natural paints because modern painters and modern parents care about ingredients and product safety.

So I was wondering about an open letter to the companies? Like a petition of sorts? How many would sign?? And would you pay the extra? I honestly believe if there was enough interest expressed then companies would produce these products, cause the reality is it is supply and demand so there needs to be a demand before they supply it....

Well said, and in complete agreement on every point you have made. I would willingly pay the extra. Thanks for this post JBM, it has given me an indication of the level of commitment and thought process behind the choices experienced face painters make. I have a much better understanding of some of the decisions that have to be made now.

If it passed all the testing I might give it a go. I might even have a small pallet of it for earthy type parents.

FYI, I have nothing against earthy types... I'm pretty picky about foods & staying healthy, but can't afford all organic.

Those of you concerned about natural/organic, have you seen this?
http://www.elegantminerals.com/holiday.html

Psalmbook wrote:FYI, I have nothing against earthy types... I'm pretty picky about foods & staying healthy, but can't afford all organic.

Linda, we share this in common.
I'm not sure about the US but down under most cosmetics labelled certified organic still have to be regulated and approved? Just because something is labelled organic doesn't nessarily mean its going to be better for you?? Sure its nice to know something is pure but when it loses its shelf life that stuff gets nasty! Having worked with a couple of top cosmetic houses, I have seen more allergies come about from natural and unrefined products that it really makes you think.
I would consider an natural alternative however I would still expect it to be subject to FDA/EU/AUS approval.

JBM wrote:Linda its more a hypothetical question..like if a real company like Snaz or Wolfe or DFX realised there was a demand and created a paint that was more natural.... obviously it would have to be tested, certified, and it would have to work.. would it be worth it??

I'm thinking this is where Paradise was coming from... they put as many natural ingredients as possible and do not test on animals... obviously it has to contain some sort of preservatives for the natural elements, and has to be easy to apply and remove and I think they took all this into consideration.
To me it's the closest you can get on the market and yet people still buy the other paints.... so I don't think you could come up with something that suited everyone, all natural - hypoallergenic - and no testing on animals - easy to use and remove?.... I would like to see that.

AngieAnders wrote:Those of you concerned about natural/organic, have you seen this?
http://www.elegantminerals.com/holiday.html

that looks very promising.... however, I don't know if it's just because all of their painters are crap (which is a definite possibility looking at that tiger) or the paints themselves... it looks fuzzy? The edges of the colours seem to blur into each other and for me, that's not an acceptable level of quality.

I see what the problem is with them.... they stay greasy! it comes with powder to set it. That's not face paint, that's cream makeup and I don't think that's what any of us here are looking for.

this is something i have been thinking about a bit, i'm going to have an experiment

if it painted well I would be all over it, and I love the more natural apsect of paradise, and the fact its made here, I trust it a little more than something made in China. I buy and eat organic when I can, slowly i get there more and more. I dont know that I believe its better for you, I do believe it has less Crap in it, less of the bads, means less illness for me and my family, so if I can slow down the bad a little thats good IMHO
I would definetely try the organic paint

Didn't vote cause my vote would have to combine product performance and price comparability.

I don't put much stock in the word "organic" and even less in the word "natural" Snakes are natural...not wanting to get bitten just the same. Eye glasses, unnatural, but I would never be caught without mine. No way to know if what you buy is either one, and there is no shortage of unethical people wanting to make a buck off people who are living a lifestyle based on the latest and greatest wants.

I buy face paint that Ilike to use, and keep the MSDS sheets just in case a parent wants to make an informed choice about painting. I offer patch tests for those who ask.

A Face Painting Mom, I kind of feel the same way as you about "not tested on animals". I love animals, but if it's a chemical that hasn't been used before, I'd rather they test it on bunnies than babies. If not testing something on an animal means they bring a damaging product to market, it's meaningless. Like saying "this kitten meat is completely dolphin safe!"

the thing is, I believe that a totally natural, safe non petrolium based product is totally viable. We can do it. It's possible, however in our society we are based in a competive market where the cheapest price wins. We all do it. Every time we choose the cheaper option, because were are bargin hunters getting the best deal we are making a vote for that, how it was made. Did the provider / producer of this good recieve fair market living wage? Was it produced in ways that are sustainable, and not harmful to the people producing, or to our planet? What are we paying for? I will always pay more if I can afford it, and it's worth it. The value is there. Both with the product and who I'm supporting. I am breaking away from the consumer model of cheapest is best. or even most expensive is best ( does is really take $4000 worth of time and materials to make that designer purse with the metal label?, or was it made in labor factory over seas? I make choices with my spending power, my voting power as to who does this help the most. Is it local? I want to keep my dollars in the hands of my community, My neighbor, my friends, not corporations. Yes organic and natural , and even FDA approved labeling is a joke, that is why as conscious consumers who want to take a stand and take responsibility to know our products, to make conscious choices to support local, support the people who are doing the right thing, NOT who can sell us the cheapest paints. and demand tranparancy from the makers. Also to let them know we support them in making better, more conscious products. We don't need it certified, stamped or sealed. I've been researching myself trying to find out what paints are made in the US, or at least paying fair wages in their respective countries if I really have to leave home. what are there policies, who's made in china. Why are people using and promoting the use of Neon paints if they are not FDA approved????? Especially on Children? So yeah I'm down with an open letter, and spending more money on quality, Safe paints, that perform just as good ( our industry would not be able to survive on anything less, valid need) which we have supported the makers in doing so, buy putting our money where our heart is. If I have to carry less colors to accommodate, then I am more than happy to do so. We live in a consumer nation, where we are consuming in the name of economy producing so much crap, waste, and toxic stuff, all so that we can all make money. We don't need to. We have abundance. We all need look to look at our spending habits, and our business habits, and see how we can evolve, and improve, to lead into a better existence, better exchange of energetic goods (not just money) I am an aware person, and I want to feel my absolute best that I am not exposing anyone to anything harmful. that is my job as a facepainter to know my products, and what I am spending my money on, to demand improvment, and to know better. It's hard because if we all demanded this and went on strike to not paint another face until a product was made. We we would have every manufacturer stiving to be the first to release the natural product. It would be out within a month, then someone else would come along and relase a better product, a shimmer, or a nicer smoother black.. BUT if we can't stop ourselves from buying, and painting with these paints, then we are just as much a part of the problem. While I do think a letter would help, these companies don't have the resource or the driving dollar bill, to fund their research, and time away from selling, what sells, then it's going to be a slow process, probably minimal funding, time, materials, and labor to research. Finding the companies that do this because they want to, and do it out of care and concern, then we need to support them... or find them an investor and hook them up!

I'd spend more money to get materials with fewer offensive chemicals in them. For instance, I specifically look for shampoos, lotions, etc. without parabens, and then I have to use face paint that has them. I am not too concerned with the limited exposure the painted person has, for a face a few times at summer festivals. However, my hands are in them all the time. I am not overly weirded out by this. But, if I could find products which minimized this, I would pay more. I already pay about double for eggs (free range, organic, and humane-certified) and my other food. I would love the option for paints.