Ingredients on the Internet?

Not sure I put this the right place..

My question is? Would you like that the facepaint companies put their ingredients and maybe data sheet on their homepage, to make it easier for us facepainters (and parents and so) to see if there is something we will avoid and most important to print out to bring to jobs, if any one ask what is in?

I think it is a natural part of the costumer service, but it seems that the companies find that very private, even though it is just the same as written on the label, that everyone can see, if they have the product.

Am I the only one?

Voted!

Wait, you have ingredients printed on your labels? I don't think mine do...
Ok, yes my Tag and Wolfe do, but not Paradise. Weird. I wonder why not?

I thought most of them already did? Sometimes tracking down specifics takes a bit of work though.

Which is why I put the MSDS links on my resources page.

Paradise/Mehron have their on the package, so you have to keep them. Not so practical in my opinion. But they do have the ingredients on their homepage =)
Wolfe have a datasheet.
I have not been able to find any on kryolan, Snazaroo, Graftobian and DiamondFX.

The reason I was looking was that here in Denmark a company called "Consumer chemistry" (they are being funded by the government) have been looking at different facepaint brands for ingredients, that are either illegal or not recommended because the risk of health or environment damage.

In DiamondFX they found (they was just looking at the ingredients on the label) CI 19140 - that might cause cancer, CI 15850 and CI 15850-1 - that might harm DNA (plus disodium distyrylbiphenyl disulfonate in the UV - with both risk for heath and the water environment) I asked DFX if they planned to use some other colours in the future and got the response that the ingredients mentioned was not in the products. I looked at the Datasheet from Shannon, and here some other ingredients was mentioned (if anyone would see if the data sheet matched the label in America, I would be happy), because now I am very confused what is in the products.

They also want all the products to have the CE number on them and that "non toxid fluorescent pigments" is not a proper way to list the ingredients.

I asked DFX for a complete list of current ingredients, but was told she had to check with the factory. I found this a bit strange and asked why she did not know what was in the products and weird with the claim that the ingredients mentioned on the label was not in the products at all. I also mentioned that I would find it very nice if the list was on their homepage. The response was (in very short) that the products was approved in America and therefore could not include any thing that might be harmful. And that they had no intention of having the ingredients on their homepage.

I do very much like the products, but found this a bit strange. Therefore I thought I would ask you in here, if I was the only one wanting to know precisely is in the products that we both use on ourself and tons of children and adult.

The CI 15850 is in a lot of cosmetic! And it is considered not-harmful - but with a side note - potential harmful http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=717749. That is why they do not recommend it here. Yes, they are very strict and I find that's a good thing =)

The government has also just banned the use of parabenes in products for children under three. So it is still legal in facepaint, but think that will change.

Shady.

SO... the moral of the story is that... the brands MANUFACTURED in China (Wolfe, DFX AND TAG... and any others that are now popping up) are all suspect. And they ALL come from the same manufacturer!!!

Brands manufactured in the EU - Snaz, Grimas, Kryolan... I assume meet EU requirements? Have you confirmed that Lone?

I have the Kryolan MSDS on my resources page.

Graftobian and Mehron are made in the US.

The FDA is actually NOT that reliable in how it regulates and indentifies substances and how they are used... there are a lot of things that are approved that are dangerous.

In my limited understanding from reading into health stuff FDA approval is something that can be bought. I'm glad you raised this as it seems paints are a bit behind in the whole natural/healthy living realm - there are some amazing make up products now that are safe and good to use so why are there no paints? I've been using Snazaroo because it seems the safest and yet it is loaded with parabens and I admit I do paint kids under three if they are into it which is often the case if their older siblings get face art... I wish I had heard better reports about GRIMAS pure. It seems from the votes on this that there may be a market for non toxic paints.. so how to get a company to make good ones is the next question??

Not quite Shannon. Diamond has been approved (and guess the others also) in EU, the only thing illegal about it, was that the they had and CE approval (it is a deceleration where it is tested if the product is safe) but it wasn't written on the label.

The colours are all legal for EU standards, but they are compared to a even stricter list in Denmark, where ingredients that might be harmful - not just where they know it is - also is on. Normally it is the ingredients that end up on the list of illegal ingredients some years in the future.

The test from last year is here
http://www.forbrugerkemi.dk/test-og-rad/born/sminke/test-af-fastelavnssminke

The dots means they have found something unwanted in them.
Blue: Perfume
Yellow: Perfumes that has to be mentioned with name
Orange: Other ingredients that can cause allergy
Red: Might change DNA - like parabens
Green: Bad for the environment.

Snazaroo gets one-three dots. Grimas pure gets one. They have not looked at other internationally known brands, because they are not easy to get in Denmark.
But I can remember that Kryolan has Perfume, so with Mehron and Wolfe essentials. Graftobian has parabenes. I have not looked at a Tag ingredients list (only the price tag, and that scared me away ;-) ), so do not know what is in.

The only one they found good was Eulenspiegel (and some facepaint pencils called Lyra and a small brand called Rio).

Yes, the facepaint companies seems to be behind, compared to other makeup companies. I think that it is because so few ask for it. Both makeup artist, but especially consumers/parents. When at trade shows and I ask about if it contain something simple like perfume, they employees has to check the label. With Kryolan I even tried that the sales lady claimed that there was nothing in, when I asked why they didn't make it without. The next one I talked to (that seems to be a boss) was instead telling that it was because the smell was very chemical if there wasn't any. Why is it possible for some companies to make facepaint that does have no smell, and for others not?

In America it seems that parabens are a good thing. Of cause it does prevent bacteria and other stuff to grow in the products, but there are other things that does the same thing. And that without the risk of adding to the risk of girls go into puberty before time and boys risk not being able to have children.

I really love facepainting, but I don't like to use products I know is bad for the child.

What do you use Lonewolf?

I normally use Diamond FX. It is one of the few without parabenes and perfume, something the consumers ask a lot about here. And personally I get a headache from a lot of perfume, so I try to avoid that. Thinking about switching to Eulenspiegel.

I would love to hear you reviews if you use Eulenspiegel. I've been finding it really daunting trying to decode the ingredients lists and work out which is best. Thanks so much for this thread.

I have tried Euenspiegel and I find it very similar to DFX/Wolfe, but impossible to pronounce *lol*

Hi

An interesting thread.

Apart from the safety issues, what would you all say is your favourite product?

Was recently asking this on FB for my website, as it is a common question asked by those starting out....

Check out: Facebook Question

My site tries to keep a neutral stance but it is interesting to hear what the Pro's say...

Regards

While my immediate thought is "yes I want that", even if they do list all the ingredients and are 100% truthful, how are we really suppossed to know every ingredient that could be harmful.

It sounds like you have done a lot of research because of the strict standards in your country, but I don't think the average face painter will know what is dangerous and what isn't.

Even if they publish all of this, won't we have to cross reference all of the ingredients with a list of known harmful ingredients?

Yup! As professionals it might end up being our duty to do it for ourselves!

LoneWolf wrote:Paradise/Mehron have their on the package, so you have to keep them. Not so practical in my opinion. But they do have the ingredients on their homepage =)
Wolfe have a datasheet.
I have not been able to find any on kryolan, Snazaroo, Graftobian and DiamondFX.

The reason I was looking was that here in Denmark a company called "Consumer chemistry" (they are being funded by the government) have been looking at different facepaint brands for ingredients, that are either illegal or not recommended because the risk of health or environment damage.

In DiamondFX they found (they was just looking at the ingredients on the label) CI 19140 - that might cause cancer, CI 15850 and CI 15850-1 - that might harm DNA (plus disodium distyrylbiphenyl disulfonate in the UV - with both risk for heath and the water environment) I asked DFX if they planned to use some other colours in the future and got the response that the ingredients mentioned was not in the products. I looked at the Datasheet from Shannon, and here some other ingredients was mentioned (if anyone would see if the data sheet matched the label in America, I would be happy), because now I am very confused what is in the products.

They also want all the products to have the CE number on them and that "non toxid fluorescent pigments" is not a proper way to list the ingredients.

I asked DFX for a complete list of current ingredients, but was told she had to check with the factory. I found this a bit strange and asked why she did not know what was in the products and weird with the claim that the ingredients mentioned on the label was not in the products at all. I also mentioned that I would find it very nice if the list was on their homepage. The response was (in very short) that the products was approved in America and therefore could not include any thing that might be harmful. And that they had no intention of having the ingredients on their homepage.

I do very much like the products, but found this a bit strange. Therefore I thought I would ask you in here, if I was the only one wanting to know precisely is in the products that we both use on ourself and tons of children and adult.

The CI 15850 is in a lot of cosmetic! And it is considered not-harmful - but with a side note - potential harmful http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=717749. That is why they do not recommend it here. Yes, they are very strict and I find that's a good thing =)

The government has also just banned the use of parabenes in products for children under three. So it is still legal in facepaint, but think that will change.

I first want to say thank you to every person on this forum for sharing your experience, talent and information here. This is a very valuable place if you are in any way involved in face or body painting of any kind.

I have done a lot of research into the types of face paints that are available. Mainly because I am new to it, have children of my own, and want to make sure that I use paints that are safe FIRST, above how my designs will look. I have been surprised by how popular some of the brands are that have lead and other undesirable ingredients, even in trace amounts, and how many face painters are using them based on how the design will look, rather than what the ingredients are. These are predominantly going to be used to paint the faces of children after all.

In the research that I've done so far, I have found few of the professional brands that do not contain trace amounts of lead (how much lead is safe lead for a child?), and other metals that are definitely unhealthy. They all claim to be FDA approved, which means crap since the FDA approves all of our food, and look at what they allow in that.

I absolutely LOVE the colors, selections, and artistic qualities that are available with many of these paints, and I'm a little depressed that I can't get the 'cake' like application look, with what IS available in terms of really safe, non-toxic, water based, lead and metal free face painting make-up out there for children.

However, this does not mean that I'm willing to compromise the health and safety of the children I paint by subjecting them to chemicals they don't need. I'll use what IS safe, practice my skills a LOT more to be able to paint as beautifully with the safe paints as with the unsafe but more 'professional' and responsive types of paint, and let everyone know they take a bit longer to dry... but they won't have to worry about any brain damage or skin diseases for their kids

Thank you for continuing to be a valuable source for information on this topic.

You do realize that there are traces of lead in EVERYTHING we eat, touch, breath, drink and look at right?

I don't think the "risk" of the contact face paint would have with a child (a few hours of wearing face paint a few times a year, if that) is going to cause any brain damage or skin diseases.

Going to Emergency and getting an x-ray is more damaging on a cellular level than any face paint will be. And the chemicals released by your car and the carpets in your house have a much bigger impact than face paint seeing as they are constant expsoures?

Good luck.

I agree with all that is said however I want to say that when they say things will change DNA or cause cancer, that is after prolonged exposure...not once on a child. WE are the ones in danger of those, not the kids. We're the ones around it, with it on us, inhaling the particles.

Our paints are chemicals. Pure and simple. Pigments, however natural, are chemicals. There will always be that one person who will have a reaction to even the most mild and natural product. It's why we have insurance.

For our clients we need to be more aware of allergens and skin irritants over carcinogens and DNA changing chemicals. I understand this is the gov't freak out. I get that but I don't think companies should put the MSDS on their front/home pages. I'm quite content with the ingredients on the backs or on the info sheets in the boxes and if I want/need more than that, I am perfectly happy looking it up.

Out of interest fortune cookie what do you use to paint with?

Another poll...

http://www.facepaintforum.com/t5733-would-you-buy-natural-or-organic-facepaint

JBM wrote:Out of interest fortune cookie what do you use to paint with?

Hello JBM,

I use Elegant Minerals

http://www.elegantminerals.com/Natural_Non_Toxic_Face_Paint_LEAD_FREE.html

and these are my (beginner) results with these paints

www.FacePaintingRI.Wordpress.com

I'm hoping that with more practice I'll be able to achieve better results in the designs. The only thing that I've noticed with these paints, is that they take a lot longer to dry. They go on very nicely, and they blend well.

I'm sure most people wouldn't think twice about what is in the face paint. It doesn't mean as a professional I'm not going to tell them. That would be like being a nutritionist who didn't bother to explain the differences in the food choices available.

These paints won't do some of the stuff I've seen done with Diamond's products, but again, it's a personal choice I think, and that's the one I'm making for my business. I like being able to tell moms that there is absolutely nothing in the face paint that their kids couldn't pretty much eat and be okay. I think it also depends on the clients you are serving, and what they want for their children.

Shannon Fennell wrote:You do realize that there are traces of lead in EVERYTHING we eat, touch, breath, drink and look at right?

I don't think the "risk" of the contact face paint would have with a child (a few hours of wearing face paint a few times a year, if that) is going to cause any brain damage or skin diseases.

Going to Emergency and getting an x-ray is more damaging on a cellular level than any face paint will be. And the chemicals released by your car and the carpets in your house have a much bigger impact than face paint seeing as they are constant expsoures?

Good luck.

Hello Shannon,

Yes, I realize there may be trace amounts of many things in a lot of what we come into contact with. I prefer not to use products from companies that choose to put in ingredients that have been proven dangerous or undesirable on any level.

While that may eliminate a good deal of the larger companies, it opens the door for me to explore some really great start-ups, small businesses, and less 'corporate' type companies who are often more in line with using natural and organic ingredients in their products.

As for carpets, cars, and hospitals; we're healthy, walk almost everywhere, and have hard wood floors

We also eat organic food, filter our water, and eliminate as many of the 'known' chemicals, additives, dyes, and practices that tend to cause problems, off our list entirely. It's a lifestyle choice that works for me and my family, and not what I would suggest for everyone, as it does take a good amount of time, research, and effort to maintain. Because the rewards are so amazing however, I tend to share what I know and learn with others, and if it is useful to them - great, if not, that's great too.

Thanks for the wish for luck

Do you happen to know if the Vitamin E listed is derived from wheat or another source?

Hi Noella,

I don't know, but I've written to ask them which it is.

I know there are one or two forms (tocopherol acetate being the worst) that can cause contact dermatitis; though it is widely known to cause this and so avoided by most cosmetic companies using natural and organic ingredients. Their claim of hypoallergenic would seem to eliminate anything that might cause skin problems.

It will be interesting to find out