Reactions to paint

Paradise has a cocoa butter smell. I find it quite pleasant, as have all of my clients and models. I can't be around ANY chemicals or perfumes because my system can't handle fumes or strong smells, but the Paradise is actually nice to me. You can contact Shelley at Mehron and tell her you are concerned about the scent in the Paradise bothering you and she will probably send you a free sample to try.
I know Shannon doesn't like its scent and has had problems with it, but we are all different that way.
I suggest trying a brand out for yourself before discounting it.

I carry the MSDS for every maker I use, yes, and I keep the boxes (flattened in my case) as well. I also carry releases at all time. Although, so far, I have not needed any of them (knock on wood).

Like Lisa said, Shelley at Mehron is really helpful.

RE: GLUTEN - I received a response from Snazaroo regarding gluten in their face paints. It was as I suspected, but now it's clear. There are no natural ingredients in their paint, so no opportunity for gluten. I really appreciated their effort to contact the coeliac helpline and confirm that it doesn't effect externally. Way to go the extra mile Snazaroo! I explained this to the parent that had enquired and she still insists it could be there, but she's going to let her daughter be painted anyway. Some people are just determined aren't they : )

Here's the response:

Dear Magna,
I have contacted our technical department and this is this is a summary of the reply I received. Snazaroo has not had their products tested for the presence of Gluten as we have no reason to believe it is present, we have no natural ingredients in our products, therefore there should be no potential source of gluten.

They have also contacted the Coeliac disease helpline (0870 4448804) and they tell have stated that even if the product did contain gluten, so long as it wasn’t swallowed, there would be no reaction to the product on the skin. MSDS attached.

Kind regards
Adrian Ryan
General Manager
Snazaroo Holdings Ltd
Tel: +44 (0) 1643 707659
Fax: +44 (0) 1643 706492
E-mail: adrian.ryan@snazaroo.co.uk

aprilmoonflower wrote:btw~ I want to remind everyone that the skin is the largest organ of the body and does absorb anything that is put on top of it!!!!!

Aprilmoon is right. The skin is the largest organ of our body.

I also don't think any parent's concerns should be poo pooed as drama. I have friends that have kids with allergies, and taking them serious is important. My son is autistic and was on a GFCF (gluten and casien free) diet for two years. I had people totally disregard our concerns. When you have a child with special concerns, it is hard enough to have to live with that problem, let alone not have people refuse to make a small effort for you or respect your concerns. A friend of mine has a kid with several food allergies. She wanted to bring some popcicles into preschool, so he could have a birthday treat when kids brought them in. They told her "no" because "it wasn't fair to the other kids." It made me want to go over and punch them.

A kid with celiac can't have cookies that everyone eats. nor Sandwich bread or Pizza. They can't eat out, most of the time and have to sit around and see everyone eating things they cant. This mom has EVERY right to question.

On a positive note, I have a friend with a celiac child, and I've had no problems painting her.

Kristal, I'm sorry if I came across as disrespectful. That was not my intention. I did make extensive effort to address her concerns and researched all of her questions. I've spoken to her in person and followed up with emails directing her to my sources. I've offered to test patch her daughter at her convenience and even suggested I bring stickers so she wouldn't feel left out if she's still concerned. Not sure what more I could have done. It was entirely her decision to let her daughter be painted.

I have celiac friends and I have lived a couple years on a no wheat, sugar or dairy diet. I'm very familiar how difficult special diets can be. Maybe you missed my previous post about mamma bears. I'm glad people ask questions and I'm glad I was able to research the answers. Now I know for future. I passed the information on to the Forum because I found it helpful to me and I wanted to share it as you all have been helpful to me.

I probably should have left out my opinion on this particular parent as it's not really relevant to this topic. I think sometimes written discussions can be misunderstood because the 'tone' is missing. Sorry if it came across as harsh.

I did see your other post later and was glad. Just being on the other side makes it a touchy subject for me.

One time I had called a restaurant, to see if my son was going to be able to eat there, to ask if they had gluten in their fries. The answer I received was "it is propitiatory information" . So needless to say I don't eat at that place, even though my son is no longer on that diet.

We removed corn from his diet at one point. Even small amounts in stuff made his cheeks turn flaming red. Every Sunday at church they handed candy out to the kids in Sunday school. And every week my son had to watch everyone else eating candy but him. I was so frustrated that I mentioned it to a "friend". I just said, do they have to do it EVERY WEEK. Her response was "Well, you can't expect us to deprive OUR kids." Seriously? Like candy every week is good for them?

They don't do it any more. Too many more kids have developed allergies that they are finally sensitive to it.

Someone had stated (Shannon I think). Why do you even do it if you are concerned?? Well, the reason is that when a kid has an allergy, they already get deprived of so many things. If there is a chance that my child can have the treat or get their face painted like everyone else, doggone it, we are going to see if we can.

kristal- I agree with everything you have posted.

I wonder if there is such a thing as natural based paints?

I have a friend who has been making her own body paints with different plants for color. seems cool to me but not going to work for what I am wanting to do and they are labor intensive. (she makes them for painting herself)

You would probably find that the "natural based paints" would have a higher reaction rate. It is my understanding that companies like Snazaroo do not put "natural" ingredients in their products for that very reason. Even the "lanolin" they use is a synthetic form that does not affect people with lanolin allergies, because those with the allergy are allergic to natural lanolin.
The more "natural" plant matter you add to a product, the more you are increasing the chance of allergy. This is the same issue that was discussed on the "brush bath" thread.

Kristal,

Thank you for the thought and effort put into your posts. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of what others go through to keep our sensitivity levels where they should be. I had no idea of the effort and issues that go along with some of these allergies and I am grateful to be now a bit more educated.

Thanks and I will take care to heed any parents concerns with just a bit more empathy.

Magna, thanks for the posting and for the research after the fact. It is great when we get factual input of some of our concerns, when many times all we can post is our own experience and feelings.

-Metina

Kristal S. wrote:
Someone had stated (Shannon I think). Why do you even do it if you are concerned?? Well, the reason is that when a kid has an allergy, they already get deprived of so many things. If there is a chance that my child can have the treat or get their face painted like everyone else, doggone it, we are going to see if we can.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across so harshly. I've got no issue with the parents who ask, and then make a decision. It was the ones that make a big scene that I thought we were addressing. My family has lots of allergies and my brother was "deprived" of lots of things.... I am not unsympathetic.

That is why I carry MSDS and containers with the labels to give the parents to read themselves. Almost every gig there is a parent who does in fact read the labels before making a decision... that I am happy to provide.

I'm not a chemist - I don't know what all the ingredients are. I assume the parents do since they ask to read the labels.

I"m really glad to hear about the 'lack of' gluten in the face paints. I am now gluten free and casein free (which means all dairy and most of the other fake cheeses, as they put Casein in it to make it melt better). Thank God I can still eat chocolate...

If I was therefore, painting my skin with gluten, it would be kinda self defeating! I do occasionally get 'micro' doses and I immediately have an eye flare up (my Iritis...they go beet red and hurt like the dickens). So I was wondering if it was something I was using topically. But I think it's just foods that 'should be' gluten free, but are contaminated if I didn't actually cook it myself. It just gets old to take the boys out to eat and then sit there with nothing, if they don't have any 'for sure' Gluten Free stuff...so sometimes I take chances and then deal with the pain for a few days!

I have one mom I see fairly often that repeatedly asks me if the paints are latex free. I tell her that the ones I have are latex free...but she asks me everytime and then lets her child be painted and there has never been a problem. (Thank Goodness). I worry this child might develop other allergies though as time goes on and might have a reaction.

Why would natural paints have more chance of reaction than those that are chemical based? (not being snarky here just trying to understand)

Also if it's synthetic lanolin how do they get away with not disclosing that on their packaging. I gotta wonder WHAT synthetic lanolin is made from, yk? maybe it's an oil of some sort? (no doubt petroleum based which is a bit disheartening but I digress..)

I do actually have an allergy prone child. Except we have NO IDEA what he is actually allergic to yet! (we suspect some food and some salicylate sensitivities) he has not yet been tested. thankfully he hasn't had any issues for several months so it's just a bit of a puzzle. My paints haven't given him any reactions either thankfully which is good as he has somewhat sensitive skin. (like his mom). I know he could react at any time but I feel ok with it as we are pretty sure his problems are more food related..

I have heard of a corn allergic child having a reaction when using a lip gloss that had it in it.

modernmagik wrote:You would probably find that the "natural based paints" would have a higher reaction rate. It is my understanding that companies like Snazaroo do not put "natural" ingredients in their products for that very reason. Even the "lanolin" they use is a synthetic form that does not affect people with lanolin allergies, because those with the allergy are allergic to natural lanolin.
The more "natural" plant matter you add to a product, the more you are increasing the chance of allergy. This is the same issue that was discussed on the "brush bath" thread.

Good to know about the synthetic lanolin. I've been telling people that if they have a lanolin allergy they can't be painted.

I have some natural 'finger' paints I bought at a tradeshow awhile back for my kids. The colours aren't as bright, but they're very safe and clean up great. See www.colorifics.net

Wow, this has been a useful topic.

By the way, when I was on the gluten free diet I found the only restaurant I could safely eat at was Greek. I don't eat out a lot, but it sure was frustrating when I did as there was literally nothing besides salad I could eat! and that's if I told them to hold the croutons.

Simply because of all the plant matter that would have to be used to make the product hold together and be usable. The majority of allergies out there are food and skin allergies to various plant matter.
Don't get me wrong... I use as many natural products as I can in my home. In fact, we use hardly any chemicals at all....we have a septic tank, so we have to use chemicals for that, and there are some chemical based pesticides we have to use as we live in the country, but most everything we use is eco-friendly. My son and I have asthma.....his is very severe, and we can NOT be around harsh chemicals.

I had a Mom tell me her daughter's eyelid swelled after I used Mehron Star Blend white on her for Halloween. I had painted her before, but I used Snazaroo and she didn't have any reaction. Luckily, the Mom is a friend of mine and she was very understanding. That is the only reaction I have been told about and I've been painting for 5 years.

The only reaction I have ever been questioned about was from the parent of a girl who was painted entirely with Snaz

I saw this on the internet; the mum says that her daughter had been painted as a princess the day before - they took the makeup off that night and she woke up like this -all sore and swollen...don't know what face paint was used...but it could just as easily have been acrylics... who knows:





Poor kid!

I'd like to address the myth that because skin is an organ, "everything gets absorbed." If you want to avoid a pedantic ramble, skip this!

TL:DR - Skin is an organ, but everything is NOT absorbed. Skin is a very effective barrier.

If we absorbed everything, then even something as simple as being in air would be a problem and upset our internal pH among other problems. Swimming would cause us to drown! Neither does our skin "breath.” We are not frogs. Our skin uses oxygen provided to the skin cells by blood vessels, just like every other organ in our bodies. Very little atmospheric O2, (practically immeasurable amounts) is absorbed. There are quite a few layers of cells between our outer skin and our dermis where the blood vessels reside. Smearing oil on your skin doesn't keep your skin from breathing but it can reduce our skin eliminating products (sweat, etc) which is why it feels awkward, as though our skin "can't breath."

If our skin absorbed everything, then we'd be constantly in a high state of immune compromise. We DON'T catch every little bacterial infection we come in contact with because our skin is a barrier. Many of us probably have come in contact numerous times with MRSA and other pathogenic bacteria, but we don't get a systemic infection because our skin is an effective barrier.

Some products are designed to be absorbed into the top cells layers of your skin - think: moisturizers. Even then, most of these products are not making direct contact with your blood stream, and most of the chemicals in them just sit on top of our skin. Any product with mineral oil as an ingredient is doing this - mineral oil is too big of a molecule to be absorbed into your skin. We use products with silicone because it sits on your skin and makes it look/feel more "even," but it doesn't absorb.

Because your skin is comprised of cells, anything that absorbs through your skin can only go one of two ways:

1. Through a cell: this means the product has to be able to be either actively or passively transported through a cell's double lipid membrane AND it's watery interior. Many chemicals are either lipophilic (like fats), or lipophobic (like water, hate fats), and not both. Its harder to design a chemical that can bridge both. An example of this is DMSO and steroids.

2. Inbetween cells: this means the product has a very long route ahead of it and it has to be small enough to actually fit between cells. Most products are way too big of a molecule to do this.

It's actually pretty HARD to design transdermal medication with consistent blood delivery levels because the two routes above provide a pretty big challenge to chemicals.

Here's where it gets more complicated: Molecules that are too big to pass through the outer layer of our skin often can pass through mucous membranes - gluten is an example of this. So, smear gluten-containing products on your skin? Probably not an issue, but touch the gluten on your skin and then rub the inside of your nose or mouth or wipe yourself after going to the bathroom and you might have an issue depending your level of sensitivity.

Also, when skin is broken and the barrier is thus broken, it's very possible for products, bacteria, fungus, etc that would normally not cause harm to cause infection or reaction. This is why it's safer not to paint on broken skin, whether it's garden variety popped zits or eczema, other rashes, cold sores, or abrasions. Painting on broken skin doesn't mean the individual WILL react - only that the product is reaching places it wouldn't normally get if the skin were unbroken.

Side note:
Shannon – maybe this is the reaction you were seeing with your model? Do the shiny whites like the Snaz products contain more parabens? http://www.snazaroo.us/faqpreservatives.htm

Osamu Handa, Satoko Adachi, Tomohisa Takagi et al. (3 October 2006). "Methylparaben potentiates UV-induced damage of skin keratinocytes". Toxicology 227 (1-2): 62–72. doi:10.1016/j.tox.2006.07.018. PMID 16938376.

Yoshinori Okamoto, Tomohiro Hayashi, Shinpei Matsunami, Koji Ueda, Nakao Kojima (July 26, 2008). "Combined activation of methyl paraben by light irradiation and esterase metabolism toward oxidative DNA damage". Chemical Research in Toxicology 21 (: 1594–9. doi:10.1021/tx800066u. PMID 18656963

CATZ wrote:Has anyone heard of face paints containing 'gluten'? I had a mom insist that most face paints have gluten in them the other day. I thought it was pretty bizarre, but said I'd check into it. I'm going to be painting at a party her child will be at and she needs assurance that the paints are gluten free. I use Snazaroo, Diamond FX, Wolfe, and Kryolan.

I'm late joining this game but I can add some perspective. I have been a member of the 'celiac tribe' since I was a kid. I WISH WISH WISH it was a fad-diet, but for my daughter and I gluten = a life or death matter. Gluten can be found in: wheat, barley, rye, and certain types of oats. Reactions vary. Gluten has to be ingested to cause a reaction, but that doesn't always equal 'traditional eating.' Gluten reactions can occur with 20+ ppm. I'm pretty sure that I vaguely remember one doctor explaining that it is the equivalent of placing 1/8 a teaspoon of cookie crumbs in a bathtub (and cookie crumbs contain things other than just gluten). Children with celiac disease cannot play with playdough. The playdough residue stays on their hands and when the children touch their mouth, or eat a gluten free sandwhich, they transfer the residue into their mouth effectively - 'eating' it! Another example = lotions. People with celiac disease are STRONGLY advised to steer clear of aveeno. (AVEENO products = contain oats, ergo they contain gluten.) Nobody EATS lotion (and if you do, than we need to have a serious talk!) but just like the playdough, the residue stays under your nails, on your hands, in the cracks of your skin, and it's very easy to transfer that residue into your mouth. Have you ever gotten shampoo in your mouth? If you have celiac disease, you do NOT want the 'taste' of a gluten containing shampoo in your mouth! Think about how often you have to reapply lipstick throughout the day...that's because women consume POUNDS of lipstick throughout their life cycle. Walk into a bakery kitchen. The place smells wonderful and there is TONS of flour permeating the air. That flour coats the inside of your mouth and when you swallow...you've just ingested gluten.

Now, is using a lipstick that has gluten going to cause the same problems as eating a whole slice of pizza? Not usually. The piece of pizza is always worse. If I eat a piece of pizza, I'll be in the hospital hooked up to an IV b/c I couldn't stop vomitting. I'll spend two weeks alternating between horrible D and constipation. I'll break out in super itchy eczema. (How do I know this, as a teen I decided that my parents must have been kidding and that Celiac Disease didn't really affect me. MAN, did I learn ALOT from that little lesson.) But if I use the wrong lipstick (which has happened, I try to prevent cross contamination, but stuff happens) I'll 'just' have two days of horrid stomach cramps. I say 'just' but if I can avoid gluten I will. I LITERALLY DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER to avoid getting sick. So, I check ALL LABELS. The hair/makeup industry uses hydrolyzed wheat protein in COUNTLESS PRODUCTS. Have a bottle of treseme? Flip it around. Only 1 'flavor' has no wheat. Pick up some revlon conditioner - same problem.

MAKEUP specifically LIPSTICK/LIPGLOSSES are a HUGE HUGE HUGE issue. Lipsticks...man...don't get me started. Much of the 'vitamin E' is wheat derived. MAC pro lipcolor (the double edged wand where one side is color and one side is gloss) is gluten free, but their Vitamin E lip sticks contain wheat. Plus the words 'new formula!' on a package of anything makes me break out in a cold sweat. Hopefully one day soon the FDA will INSIST that something be done and hold the cosmetic industry responsible for using plain english and clear MSDS sheets on what is in their products. But that hasn't really happened yet.

And it makes many people slightly paranoid (remember though, these are people who are trying to avoid getting sick at all costs. They don't WANT to seem crazy. They just don't want to accidentally get sick...or worse, to know that they are the reason that their child is sick).

There is SOOOO many problems with the makeup industry that many people automatically assume that facepaints are going to have the same issue. Thankfully, (as was earlier pointed out) Snaz is gluten free. Wolfe, DFX and TAG are gluten free. While makeup companies try to 'play up' the all-natural ingredients, face paint companies do not use hydrolyzed wheat (biggest culprit) and most do not contain vitamin E from wheat.

That being said, if the facepainter eats a sandwhich/has a kit that is near food/paints dirty faced kids (yuck!), than the face paints can be contaminated. This is true for ALL ALLERGIES!

What's the take home message? I like to keep a sign near my table that says that there is no food allowed at the face paint table. I ask kids to wipe their faces with a wipe, and I wash my hands and rinse out my mouth before and after eating ANYTHING (I'm not allergic to tree nuts, but I would HATE for my honey nut chex to give some poor kid an allergic reaction!) I also encourage parents to do a 'skin swipe' to see if a child is sensitive, and I avoid FAB and paradise paints. The colors are BEAUTIFUL but the stench really knocks you. DFX, snaz, and WOLFE are fairly unscented. TAG has a scent, but I've found that if I air it out for two weeks before using (yes, I'm insane, whatever ) than the smell is gone.

A week ago, I noticed I had a small rash come up on the back of my hand after a gig. It's where I check to see the consistency of the paint before I apply to a childs face.

I'm pretty sure I was playing around with my great dane earlier that day and he must have scratched the back of my hand and I didn't realize it until after I had a reaction. The only colors I used on the back of my hand were black and white wolfe(brand new containers) and a metallic purple Diamond FX from my small palette.

I've painted since with no problems with the Wolfe. I need to pull the purple back out test it again to be sure it was just a fluke caused by a scratch.

I wish I had looked into this thread earlier.... as a person with celiac.

There is definitely no gluten in Snazaroo or I would have reacted to it terribly by now. My daughter and I are both gluten and dairy free. Yes, it is horrible to be left out of everything due to food allergies, face painting shouldn't be one of them.

And just on a side note about it... even if face paint isn't deliberately ingested, we paint on their mouth, they touch their face and get it on their hands and then eat something... it's easy to get body care products into your mouth even if you don't usually show a skin reaction to them.

I have such sensitive skin that I've come to the conclusion that if the paint affects me, I won't use it on anyone. I haven't had a problem with any of my paints yet...

I also keep a laminated sheet of all ingredients on my table for parents to look at if they need.

I had a boy react very adversely to Snaz Red. I painted an all face Spiderman also using Wolfe white and black but the rash was ALL over his face, like hives! His mom said to me before he got painted that he has broken out from face paint before but he has never been painted with paints that look anything like mine so she was sure he'd be fine. When she told me what happened I simply apologized and offered her a refund. She said, "no, I told you he would probably break out from it and we did it anyway, it's not your fault". I haven't had that problem with anyone or anything else. My daughter sometimes gets a rash under her eyes though, especially from the glittered areas and the Wolfe black has left raised red marks on me and her when the paint was worn all day long.