Thought on Safety of Dippy Pots

Not sure if this got passed along, I haven't had time to catch up on all the threads but didn't notice this yet..

We had an issue on a UK forum with a nasty reaction this year, and they traced it to dippy pots -breeding ground for germs it seems. (Despite the anti-bac properties in all the good paints.) I know a lot of you/ us work with a wet well in the middle of paints even if we haven't made actual dippy pots, just to have the right coloured liquids handy for linework.

Its never happened to me, but I think that's the way I work; I had this idea years ago when I was painting in Hong Kong and started it there!
To be safe I keep 2 empty pots in my palettes into which I put tiny wee lumps of black / white, at the start of a gig. I add water, swirl until most 'melts' and keep that liquid going throughput the gig. So If I only have a little bit that I mix in the empty pot and have used up by the end of a gig, it's MUCH safer as I'm not constantly going back to. Plus it stops your whole paint cake getting stained/ gooey from prolonged exposure to water etc.

Just thought its mentioning as the USA has parts much warmer/ more likely to breed germs than the UK!

Cat x

^I know this is kind off the topic of dippy pots, but do the paints really have any antibacterial properties at all? Or is it a myth? I keep reading that on here, but when I look on the TAG website, for example, there is no mention of it - I would have thought that if they were antibacterial, that would be something they'd be promoting -? I guess you could say I'm dubious - if somebody has links to any face paint manufacturer’s info on this topic I would be interested in reading up on it.

They don't kill bacteria, they have chemicals that prevent microbial growth. If you'd like to read more about it, http://www.snazaroo.us/safety.htm

Sodium benzoate is a food grade preservative used in the Wolfe/DFx/TAG products. It's bacteriostatic (inhibits growth), not bacteriocidal (kills), and only when the product at the correct pH (fairly acidic).

Snaz has a different agents, parabens, which can be somewhat bacteriocidal and fungicidal but are mostly bacteriostatic. There is also debate on how much parabens influence hormones, especially estrogen.

None of these products are going to kill viruses. If you're diluting the products with water, you're also diluting the preservatives. How much does this have an effect on the bacteriostatic properties? I don't know, but it's food for thought.

Take home: Don't paint sick people. Don't paint open skin.

Cat, how did they "trace" it? Did someone actually do a culture of their dippy pot?

Not sure; from what I recall FACE etc were involved when the painter went 'public' and we just heard their results.

But as your explanations say thats exactly what I thought must have happened and why I don't 'keep' dippy pots or constantly liquidised areas of paint going.

Thanks Cat! I think I'll make a fresh batch for each gig from now on...

This is always a worry of mine. This is why I don't have a dippy pot. I do have wells in my white and black, but only add a few drops of water to it during a gig and add drops thru out the gig when needed. I then leave my paints out to dry. The white and black stay out/open for days so I know they dry out really good Actually, I still think my white and black are open and it's been a week since I used them

I used to do that too but I was worried about the state down 'under' the paint as I noticed there was often damp there for much longer, when I was re-potting paints etc. Plus especially in Hong Kong, some of my paints still ended up getting gooey over time.

What Inlike best is that with the new-every-time method the main parent pain stays pristine so you don't worry so much about the white getting dingy over time!

Why can't they just make a thick liquid paint that would work for line work? Then you could just pour out as much as you need for that gig. Does anyone make something like this? I made dippy pots too, but dont' like using them, it's too hard to get the consistancy just right.

There is mehron liquid and fardel liquids but its not as good. And still has a shelf-life. Plus I'd still want to decant a bit to keep the main pristine.

I'm happy with my method its not a huge faff!

They do make liquid paints. Mehron and a few others for instance. And, another thought would be to make the dippy paint in a squeeze bottle and squeeze out blobs of it as needed into a pallet. Thus it stays sealed and so on.

Ultimately, working from a pallet and one use brushes is the most sanitary option, especially when working on lots of people.

I did try something the last time I had to work with a lot of people... The prep work was a bit much, but I know I kept things sanitary.

I ran my wolfe through a pasta wringer, so it was thin and flat, and stored it between layers of food safe plastic. When I need some, I cut off a small "Chicklet size piece of paint, put it on pallet, and when from there. Also use this kid of technique to mae

Sounds a bit like the rigmarole Shannon has to go through for the Canadian laws!
I think that may be a reason she likes the creme pumps Fantasy World Wide make.
However I can't be doing with paint that stays wet on the skin like that, it did my head in...

I like the squeeze bottle idea! I have "Beauty-so-Clean" in my kit for disinfection (takes 10 seconds) but what if you mixed the paint with some white vinegar in addition to the water to inhibit germs?

Vinegar near the eyes? Err - no thanks!

Plus if you add anything except water to the paints it will probably invalidate your face-paint insurance AND any insurance the paint company has.

I wouldn't even add that beauty stuff, I saw them at IMATS and tbh as far as I can see its overkill in the face paint industry, just getting at people's paranoia. Does it actually state if they are Ok'd by all the brands you use? As the rules to get FDA (etc) approval are fairly strict and I imagine only cover the mixing up/ testing of whatever the paint company sent in which would always be in their products.

If you are only painting clean faces, using clean kit and sponges and NOT leaving nice liquid breeding ground wet bits on the paint (which is what this was about), just a dampened sponge on the paint should be fine for its 'cleanliness'...

Cat

I don't use my dippy pots for near the eyes, for kiddos I switch to be kind to parents Paradise. (But wouldn't it work?)

If you mean the vinegar, I don't think so - pretty sure if you had enough of it in the paint to kill any bacteria etc you''d a) not have a colour left and b) have pretty much a liquid to wet to paint with.

I would NOT do it. Gary of Snazaroo for one is always telling people not to add anti-anything to their paints and I've heard so many people/ companies insist that not even brush-rinsing water should have stuff in.

The squeeze-bottle idea, yes, as said thats what some Canadians have to do (with the purpose built pumps) and some painters working in hospitals etc have to use tiny bits of paint per person to avoid cross-contamination of vulnerable patients.

Its seriously NOT that big a deal, especially if you don't paint mouths or inner ring of eyes, which I don't!

Thank you!

It's probably safer not to add anything to your paint water, vinegar, alcohol, etc. In a concentration strong enough to kill bacteria and/or viruses, you wouldn't want it near your face unless you really like those salt-n-vinegar potato chips (NOM!).

Something else to consider is that we don't know that the dippy pot (or wet paint) is a consistent source of contamination without doing a culture. I can only speculate based on what I know about the kinds of preservatives in the products.

Cat, this is not intended to knock what you heard, just my own thoughts on how these threads have played out in the past:
I've never seen any conclusive evidence presented about any kind of reaction a client has had, but products get blasted either way and then that information gets spread as fact. Like how people *know* that Snaz is "safer" than Wolfe or the kids *must* have reacted to the hand wipes and not the paint. Or there was that one time on another forum where Wolfe black made everyone react...or was it Wolfe green and how my sisters third cousin always reacts to Paradise yellow near her eyes? It's really all speculation based on precious little evidence and lots of 2nd and 3rd-hand anecdote. (p.s. I don't have a sister)

It might be a fun and illuminating [geekfest] experience to have people at a convention subject their kits to cultures to see what grows and to see if the paint is routinely harboring any pathogenic strains. Everything we touch has a resident colony of bacteria, but only pathogenic strains can really hurt someone. The second part of that experiment could be subjecting the paint to various treatments to see what works for reducing the resident bacterial populations (brush wash, versus wiping off a layer of paint with a wipie, versus alcohol spritzers, etc).

Know exactly what you mean - only mentioned this one as it was 'officially investigated' by face and also is something that makes sense/ can be avoided.

Theres also a painter in the UK collecting all the verified reactions;not sure what shes going to do with them tho!

How DARE YOU diss the dippy pot!?!?!?

No just kidding. It is good to know. The mehron liquid paint is very good for what I use the dippy pot for. Just dots for the end of the brush-no line work.

-Metina

Haha, Metina... that's awesome.

Would that Mehron liquid paint work for flower petals? You know, when you load with white and then dip the end in pink for instance, so they come out with a pink center? How liquid is it? Or is it more like a gel?

Edited to add: The FPF shop doesn't carry it, or am I blind?

It is really liquid! Think cough syrup. I bought mine when I first started thinking I could use it for linework and save tons of time. No go on that one. So far the only thing I've used it for is practice and whitenening hair for a drama.

Yep its not great...I really do think that making dippy pots/ patches is the only way to get what we want - just not keeping the whole cake wet for years before we use it!

Hi. I use sanitiser in my water spray bottle (and change it reguarly) as well as in my brush water. I dont put a well in the middle of my black/white i cut a little off the side when its new and work my way across.
I also get real suspicious of some irritation claims as some people may also be allergic to babywipes or whatever they have cleaned their face with, so they should always finish their face cleaning with fresh water on their face cloth.
I havent bought a copy yet but silly heather at sillyfarm has a new dvd for beginners that apparently covers all this stuff

Yep we had a thing in the UK last yr that FACE was asked to investigate again and it seemed to be baby wipes not paint.

Snaz etc do say NOT to use sanitiser etc & that nothing should be added to water either