Face Painting Vids-long post

Face Painting Videos... dun dun dun!

Okay, that flower forum debate got me to thinking... So I'm just going to say what I think.. there's no B.S. in this post, so PLEASE don't take things personally. I'm asking you to step outside of yourself for this read and to simply take it for what it is, and to read it in a logical way. I have no ill emotions towards anyone on this forum, and I consider everyone on here a friend(whether we've met or not.) So.. now that I have the disclaimer out of the way...

I get asked a lot for tutorials of what I do. "Can I see a vid of what you did there?" "Do you have a video of that?" "Oh, please make a video of how you did that!"

Very cool, it's awesome that people like what I do and want to try it out. Super flattering, I must say.

But when you get emails or comments like this 2-3 times a week, you start to feel not so flattered, and more along the lines of frustrated. I'm not pointing ANY fingers, because I'm on several forums and this happens with all of them... and I even get emails from random painters through my website(which is always interesting) asking me to teach them or make videos.

A little history on the face painting industry.. I ENVY everyone who gets into this industry now because let me tell you.. you have it EASY! When I started painting in 2004, there wasn't anything out there. There was the Snaz pics and that's about it. And you have to think that back then, people didn't even have digital cameras, so if you wanted to post a pic, you had to take the pic, get the film developed, scan it, and post it, or mail it(!!!) to Gary for him to scan it and post it. Forget forums like Metina's... no one had really even thought of those yet.

There were no videos(except Olivier's and Jinny's... which you had to buy to watch!) And the only books out there were the beginner Snaz ones and a couple of random ones from Usborne and a couple of other Children's Publishers. That was about it. Painters still communicated to each other through things like the Snaz list and whatnot.. but it wasn't anything like today. You had to physically go to a class and learn how to do something, buy a VHS(!!!) tape, look at a probably crappy book, or just figure it out on your own. That's just the way it was... for a looooooong time, for years in fact. You have to understand.. back then, people weren't even really having jams or anything.. no conventions(except the UK stuff and fabaic which was still in it's infancy!)

You have to keep this in mind because typically, the people that have been doing this the longest, and are best known in the industry all went through this period of very little communication. It wasn't the dark ages or anything, but it was leaps and bounds behind what we have now. And typically, it's those folks(the old timers) that get asked the most for instructional help.

Now put yourself in their shoes, if you had struggled to learn what you know, and worked really hard at coming up with something unique, your very own style, would you want to give that knowledge away for free? Especially to those around you who could very quickly(thanks to vids and whatnot) become serious competition to you? Probably not, and it's not because you're bitter, it's because there's no reason that you shouldn't reap the rewards of such hard work.

Now, back to my own example. I have been asked for vids a lot. And I'm okay with that. I've even made a few, because I get bored sometimes and it's something to do. Those that want to make vids are welcome to it. But also, let me say why I havn't made any vids for a while now.

I did a gig here in my area last year, and the client surprised me by saying that they had hired another painter to work with me. When I saw her, I realized right away that I didn't recognize her. We chit chatted and I found out that she had only been painting for a couple of months,and this was only her second gig. She had a choice book with her and a jumbo Snaz palette so I didn't mind her painting along. I looked at her book and there were really nice designs in there(not necessarily executed perfectly, but nice none-the-less) and I realized that a lot of the designs were Wolfe designs, Val Lampkin's designs, Mark Reid's stuff, and even (get this) two of MY designs!!! She had painted them all herself, but of course I knew the sources of the ideas.

Now, this girl didn't know who I was, and when I mentioned Mark, the twins, and Val, she didn't know AT ALL who they were. I was like... whaaaa??? How could she know all of these great designs and not know who these people were. Surely she had some books or something. So I asked what books she had, "I don't have any face paint books." oh.. okay. I asked, 'ever been to Florida, maybe one of the other conventions?' "There are conventions for face painting?" she replied.

WOW! I couldn't figure it out.. and then she said "I just watch youtube vids and stuff.. that's where I learned all of this." I was just blown away.. in two months this girl had jumped past the whole beginners stage and jumped right into really nice designs, and how did she do that? She just watched all of the free content on youtube.

Okay.. I have to say, that her brush skills were still lacking, and she only charged the client $30 and hour(!!) and she was pretty slow at painting because she just hadn't painted much, but there she was, working... with wonderful designs and she had no idea where they had come from. And that's when it bugged me. When I realized that someone out there had made videos of OTHER folks designs for youtube. It doesn't bother me at all when people go and make vids of their own designs... that's fine. If they want to do that, than cool. But doing a video of a design that isn't yours, or is from a book, or is from a DVD, that is just WRONG. Sure some artists don't have any instructional material out there(like Val) but that doesn't give you permission to recreate her design in a video for everyone to watch for free.

I was chit chatting with some great painters at Kapital Kidvention this past week and at least two of them mentioned having their work up on youtube, even though they had never made a youtube video.. and it bothered them.

It bothers me as well.. I often wonder if one of my designs will pop up on youtube as an instructional video saying 'inspired by Ashley Pickin' or not giving credit at all and just being painted for anyone to learn. That's not cool.

Now asking someone for a video, sure.. you can do that all you want. I probably won't make one for you, but that's because if I'm going to teach thousands of people(not just that person will see it, all of youtube will be able to see it) how to do my work, then I'm going to get paid for it. Otherwise, they can figure it out like I did. I may tell them how, or take a couple of step by step pics, but I'm not going to video it because it's like me teaching a free class, 3-10 mintues at a time. That's just how I feel. Is it flattering? Heck yea! It's great for an ego.. but egos don't pay me for the time(often an hour or two) that it takes me to make that video, nor does my ego stop those that live really close to me from seeing that video and telling them "go ahead and watch it, but be sure to make it into your OWN design, you don't want to just be a copy cat!"

It's just not going to happen that way.

So, for those that want to do videos, cool, go right ahead. Just be cool and don't do designs that are someone elses'. For those that want to ask for videos, cool, go right ahead, but don't be sad if the person doesn't, and don't be surprised when they think that you're coming across as the type that wants things handed to them(not that you are.. but to them, it could seem that way.) Instead, encourage them to make a book or a dvd or teach a class instead. It's the ultimate flattery.

Just my two cents, love you ALL. Even you(you know who you are.)

-Ash

Thank you Ashley! I'm understanding what you're say. I started in 2005 & only knew about the snaz page. It was my main resource. I then did the Silly Farm videos & finally branched out into you tube & practicing designs I liked from other sites & from the "old timers" in the industry. I've discovered one thing & it is disturbing me. I can paint like many of the greats(not saying I'm as good, just saying I can do a becstar butterfly, Your Nightmare Before Christmas design , a Mark Reid Tiger & the list goes on & on). It's good because it's getting me the jobs, but I found I couldn't paint the Linda Schrenk anything. So, now I'm looking & searching for who I am & what's my style & designs. So, watching all those video, etc are great to a point, but don't get lost along the way!

Psalmbook wrote:Thank you Ashley! I'm understanding what you're say. I started in 2005 & only knew about the snaz page. It was my main resource. I then did the Silly Farm videos & finally branched out into you tube & practicing designs I liked from other sites & from the "old timers" in the industry. I've discovered one thing & it is disturbing me. I can paint like many of the greats(not saying I'm as good, just saying I can do a becstar butterfly, Your Nightmare Before Christmas design , a Mark Reid Tiger & the list goes on & on). It's good because it's getting me the jobs, but I found I couldn't paint the Linda Schrenk anything. So, now I'm looking & searching for who I am & what's my style & designs. So, watching all those video, etc are great to a point, but don't get lost along the way!

I have a NBC design? haha! I think you're mixing me up with someone else.

But, yes, developing your own style is really really important. Whether you're like me and you like bold black lines and lots of color, or you're like Brady and you round off all of your corners, or you're like Mark and everything is very precise and clean.. you just have to figure out how you like to paint and then try painting anything and everything your way. That's what makes you a stand out painter!

I totally get that. I am running into the same problem as Linda mentioned.

The problem is that when you just start out, you don't know anythign about any conventions or jams. You know what you find online! I only started doing this as a side thing to make a couple extra bucks at our regular craft shows. Turned out people wanted to hire me for parties. The only "training" i could find (that was free) was you tube.

So many people have videos up there that are really good, people who seem like reputable professional facepainters, that (to me at least) it seemed like something that is normal for face painters to do! Before I realize there were conventions, and training session things, I thought this was how they showed people how it is they do what they do!

Until LJ's indignance, I had no idea one would be insulted or irritated by the mention of them doing a video.

Thanks for the heads up and for saying it nicely.

I think you said what you said in a great way. Your designs are great and I have watched a few of your videos.

I love the youtube videos. For someone like me who lives in the middle of nowhere and is just starting out and cannot afford at this time to attend conventions, etc, they have been the best resource. I have to admit that most of what I am watching is how the brush is held and technique for working with specific paints, loading, etc. to get the paint to do what you want it to.

I am having a problem currently (maybe it's just that I perceive it to be a probem) but I have seen so many designs and done so much research, and yes, I put alot of time into practice for myself also. It truly is difficult to do something you might think is yours or at least changed enough from the original, wherever that may have come. There are a million butterflies, roses, princesses, etc. and everyone does them. I could see someone painting something they want to share and it is beautiful but it might look enough like so-and-so's that someone could be offended if it is shared. I know I have not put up a gallery yet and I took down my avatar because it was a copy of a design that I found on a free henna pattern website (thanks, Kim) but I painted it in color. I knew it was not mine, but when I found out it was a fellow member of the forum, I took that down as my avatar.

I know none of this has [/i]much[i] to do with the seasoned and talented artists making videos for the rest of us (and I do appreciate them). For me I don't want my work to be a copy, at least not after I have painted that design a few times to find my own style. I tend to look more at line art and clip art and try to incorporate some of that into a new design. The internet is wonderful and terrible at the same time. My son cannot even do his homework without it because the school cannot afford books for all the students and they have an online "book." It is information at the touch of a button and you are right, it is so much easier for us than those that have paved the road for us. But without it I would never have known about professional paints and that there was such beautiful face and body art out there, just the crappy stuff everyone sees.

And Bec, I totally see your side, this is how I thought about all of this too. I know that some of the painters on youtube are sponsored by specific brands of paint and I believe that once you get a certain number of subscribers to your channel there are perks there too for the artist. I wonder sometimes if some of the famous painters that only sell their instruction might have done some youtubes if that had been available for them to get their start. It not only takes talent and education, but alot of money or backers to go straight to video or book publishing. I have not bought anything from Silly Farm, yet I have learned so much from Heather's tutorials, not designs so much as technique.

Angie, that was a wonderful, thought provoking read. Thanks for taking the time to do that. I don't get asked for vids NEARLY as often as you do so for some I lack "street cred", hopefully, your post will bring about more awareness. And just for the record, I wasn't angry when I made my intial post about this subject.
Hugz.

yea, I use the videos a lot more for figuring out how to do certain techniques than I do specific designs. Like how to make a type of flower, or how to use rainbow cakes (I was really confused when I first saw these) so then I can come up with my own full designs.

I actually find my work is much better if I'm not copying someone else.

Only MY OPINION
I think all the You Tubing, cyber sharing boosts the Face Painting Industry. And has been quite lucrative to those made known by it. If someone in your area is great be greater. Find a unique niche that makes you stand out. I have this philosophy in my 9-5 job. So I guess it's carried over here.

Not much digging sent me to these sources that inspired me on You Tube!

I am not really sure how to reply to all this except that I totally agree and glad it was said.

I too started out with all the youtube and sillyfarm videos, but did and continue to take classes, attend conventions and have loads of books and videos. I still don't have a "style" yet.

Hmm.....well said Ashley.

Wow Ash - really well said. I only just comment yesterday how we hadn't seen you around here in awhile.
I actually muted the telly so I could concentrate on what you wrote.
You hit the nail on the head.
I haven't been in this game nearly as long as you and already I have found myself getting miffed with all the requests of 'help me start my business'.
I can only imagine how inundated you must get with people thinking you would be happy to show them anything and everything.
I do believe that what you have is only as good as what you put in, so all the artists just copying will hit a wall they cannot get over.

The face painting industry as a whole is small and young and needs to be looked after and guided in the right direction so the standards are withheld.
The internet has and always will have a big problem with the fine line between 'sharing' and 'stealing'.
I do believe the artists who do a lot of videos do so for their own notoriety, not to help the face painting industry.

Tash wrote:
The face painting industry as a whole is small and young and needs to be looked after and guided in the right direction so the standards are withheld.
The internet has and always will have a big problem with the fine line between 'sharing' and 'stealing'.
I do believe the artists who do a lot of videos do so for their own notoriety, not to help the face painting industry.

Great point Tash....hmmmh???
I am definitely taking it all in and learning as I go!

I might be a little out of line here and I'm sorry if I am. If all we wanted to do is buy videos and books (which are great, I can barely afford the paint though) and attend classes and conventions, why would we bother to join such a wonderful forum as this. I was definitely drawn here because I saw helpfulness and willingness to help others learn. Something I hadn't seen anywhere else, really. If we weren't sharing designs and ideas and even how-to's we might as well all stay in the break room.

We all have something to give. I love seeing all the beautiful designs done by such talented artists. If I can't provide much to look at now, I have only just begun this and we all move at different paces. I love to tell that artist that their work great. Sometimes that is something to give. I get the feeling sometimes that that is all some want, the compliments and oohs and aahs, and I pretty much stay quiet then.

I love coming into this forum and looking at designs and looking at questions others have asked and asking a few of my own. I hope the atmosphere doesn't change too much.

Yup, it's a new era! Personally I love getting together at classes for the personal interaction. I find being around other artists is really inspiring and motivating. I went to my first convention last August in Calgary and had an absolute blast! Lucie Broulliard came out here to BC and I took another class with her. She told me not to take anymore classes from her though She meant it in a good way because she thought I didn't need them anymore. I just need to practice, practice, practice to further refine my own style. It's inspiring to see other's work and try it, but more fulfilling to put your own stamp on it. It is original art we do after all.

I love to share ideas and teach courses other than facepainting at a local university. I love this forum to show and share my joys and struggles. It's nice to get feedback from like minded folks with similar challenges and that understand the wacky way we artists think .

I was at a pirate party a few months ago and the mom wanted a design. I remembered Ashley's awesome pirate with the knife and gave it a try. I did say it wasn't my design and just went from memory. It was nice to have in the back of my mind though to make the hostess feel extra special. So thanks Ashley! If you ever make it out West I'd love to take your class!

These days I rarely have time log in with my full time job being so demanding,
I didn't even hear about this "discussion" until a fellow board member mentioned it to me.

I always knew what I did ( make videos ) was a sore subject for some but also helped other.

I get hundreds of requests for videos and hundreds of "thank you" e-mails, just because I helped them in some way.

I'm not sponsored by any company, so I dont get any perks.
I make no money or get free stuff for what I do.

I do it simply because I LIKE to.

Lady Jayde's comment did not offend me in any way, as it's just her oppinion, but I think the issue started when she started questioning you-tuber's integreity. ( or atleast that was the only comment I was offended by )

But I will admit that everyone's views are concerns of mine as well.
Yes, any face painter in my area can mimic a design I produced on youtube.
Or go to my website and steal my pictures.
And for these simple facts, I've tossed around the notion of NOT making any more videos. Or maybe just having them up for a month and pulling them down.
But once again, I do them because I LIKE to. If I ever dont feel like doing them anymore, I won't.

There was another face painter who approached me in a " not so nice" way saying that I was basically stealing money out of Mark Reid's pockets because of my "focal points" video.
Being an artist - I know what focal points are. yeah - it just so happened I went a class of his and he taught focal points, but the date on the video shows that it was uploaded before ever even taking his class. This shut the person up - but I dont feel that I should have to defend basic artistic knowledge. Especially since I went through a 4 year arts program. ( that sounded a bit snotty, but I didn't mean it that way )
Granted working with face paint is a different medium I had to learn, but I still had 4 years of schooling behind me.

I also think the idea of anyone "owning" a design is ridiculous!
You can have your own style or representation of a deisgn, but no one can own a design - once again, being in school and seeing everyone's different design and studying different artist, you can see the repetition in everything.
Honestly, you can only change the combination of flowers and teardrops so time times, untill it basically resembles what millions of others have done already.
( I think is has also been a hot topic on this forum as well )
I also dont think, just because someone published a book with the design, it instantly "becomes THEIR design".
Being a girly girl in school, I also knew some morbid boys... painting monsters and zombies and skulls.... no they were not copying the wolfe brothers, they painted them because they liked to, so translating that technique or design over to face painting does not make them copy cats, just because the wolfe brothers do the best skulls in this genre of art.

I understand that the greats have struggled and fought to know what they know and learn what they've learned, and I respect that. But dont treat me like some air head with no knowledge other than what I've "stolen" from other people.

Yes I do love and respect the great face painting artists.
Yes I own their books and videos, and yes I have taken some classes.
Granted I haven't been around as long as some of you have, but I dont feel like my lack of roots should automatically make me a weed.

Hi Ash. I hear ya.
I haven't and don't think I would ask anyone to make a vid or tutorial for me. I think when you come on to the forum and you see one person asking you tend to think "oh well, it must be okay to ask them". I appreciate that people should not be doing videos of other peoples work. However I really appreciated when someone like Vi would do vids on brush strokes...how to create a tear drop, or blending colors. I know some of the more experienced painters didn't have it as easy as us newbies now but if the tools were available I bet they would have used them too. This is something i posted on another thread earlier:

I am a fairly new Face Painter. The You tube videos are a wonderful tool! Especially in the beginning when you are unsure if this is even "your thing".

I live in a small town in Southern Alberta. I have a full time job and 2 kids. I would love to take courses but there aren't that many available in these areas. I would have to drive 3 hours and stay overnight in a hotel. Not always financially feasible. Not to mention the cost of the course. Although I imagine they are worth every penny. DVD's would be a great option but books would not do it for me at the beginning....I needed someone to "show" me. Again, in the beginning you are not sure if you want to spend that kind of money on something you may not be any good at or even like doing (although I know most who pick up the brush and sponge are addicted within days!) I honestly didn't consider myself an artist...just a really good "copy cat".

Now, after painting for a few months I have broadened my creative mind and I love to pick images from either google or magazines and give them a go as I am able to determine the best way to paint that design. I've even pulled designs from the tile on my bathroom floor! LOL One day I will be able to take one of those fabulous courses but until then I may need help from time to time.

It's all about learning and growing. Once you have the base start spreading your wings. Experiment! Use the tools to find your creative side.

Thank you to everyone who share videos, pictures, and quick tips. You have helped me to create a small home based business that I love! And I am now able to go on a holiday once a year with my family due to the extra income. May be I will be able to save enough to travel and take a course soon. I hope I can help others the way you did for me.

Thank you, Vi. You are an inspiration. It's kinda like what I said before that some people teach because they want to (intrinsic motivation). i learned that in a humanities through the arts class. That is actually one of the hallmarks of a true artist, that they do it for more than fame or monetary gain, but because they love it.

awe - thanks Peggy.
If my Boyfriend or my pocket book had a say in it - they would both want me to stop painting... I spend WAY more than what I make face painting.

( it's a secret... no on tell Eric! )

It would be safe to say Vi is an inspiration to all of us.
She does awesome work and her videos are wonderful.
The point ( I think) was more about people constantly asking or requesting videos.
And the point that perhaps where videos are concerned perhaps more isn't better in this case, which Vi has obviously thought about herself.
I'm sure it feels wonderful to do a video and feel you are helping people and then to get awesome feedback telling you how great you are! - not much to not enjoy there......!
Ash wasn't trying to say that no-one should do them or that forums like this shouldn't exist - (couldn't even stand the thought of this forum not existing!)....
more that people like Vi should be publishing DVD's and promoting them under her vids so the people she is helping can repay her kindness!

I think everyone has raised some really valid points.
I don't think anyone is getting at anyone for watching videos to learn, or even making them. It is the people the are sitting there waiting to be spoon fed everything, requesting a video of anything they want to paint.
If there are people out there happy and willing to make videos then thats great (as long as they aren't a staight copy of another artist). And you would be silly not to watch them, I watch them all the time and they are inspiring and informative. I never watch them so I can do a straight copy but it is always enlightening seeing how another painter does it.

I myself have never made a video, because I see them as a whole lot of work for a small amount of reward. If people ask me how I do something I am happy to try and help, although for me most of the time I have no idea what I have done, I have just done it.

Forums like this are an unlimited resource for face painter, from the type of paints to buy, the way to run a business, to organise your work and the big one for me is inspiration. I don't come on here just to see if anyone has posted a video for me to copy from. SBS are ok but they still only make up a small part of the forum discussions so if thats all you have come here for its more of a waste of time. If anyone is serious about facepainting they will be soacking in as much information they can get, videos included, but these are all just small steps in becoming your own artist.
One of the big things I read on this forum is practice practice practice all the basic techniques and then you should be able to simply put them into your own designs.

I just want to say Vi, that I think you're a freaking fantastic painter. I saw you in action in New Orleans, and I have tons of respect for someone that works at a skill like you do.

You are always most welcome to do your vids(I believe that I said that I think it's totally cool if people want to do that) and I know that you do all original designs. I'm not pointing fingers(even digital internet ones) at any one person doing videos, I'm just stating my experience with the phenomenon as a whole. That dichotomy between teaching and learning is an interesting relationship and all I'm saying is that it isn't a relationship that should be abused by either the teacher or the learner.

To each his own, I always say...

I hate it when you guys say i'm an inspiration actually..... I feel like there are WAY better people out there who deserve the recognition...
for instance... I wish I could paint like Ashley. I love the things she shows off and enjoy just watching her work.... dont know what it is... ?

There's also another lady on another forum, Regina... she amazes me everytime she shows something off.

Although you guys dont see it.... I actually also get ALOT of negative comments on my videos. I just remove them before anyone sees them.
People calling me fat and ugly, or saying I was nasty, or "clean your room" comments.... as nice as some people are, there are also tons of mean people on youtube.

Yeah I see everyone's point, and god knows I would love to get paid to do something I like to do already. But camera, background, mass producing a video sounds WAY beyond my reach.

Kristin and I actually talked about doing a book together. with easy, medium, hard sections..... then I looked to see how much it would cost and how much we would charge, we were only printing batches of 20... and basically... on a $30 book, we would make $4 a pop per book. GASP! ( putting my tip jar out )


- edited to say -

Ashley -
Oh lord girl - I sucked out there... yall threw titties in my face and I basically went blind!

No i'm not offended and I didn't feel any digital fingers pointing my way..
I guess in my mind i was still arguing with this anonymous person....

I'm not upset or anything....everyone is free to their opinion

Vi, I too have been asked for dvd's and books, and you're right, it's really stinking expensive. That and it's a lot of work. It's just the reason that I've never really made anything like that available. And that's fine with me, no one says that you have to do anything, and it keeps that people wanting more. Or something like that.

Wish I could see you at LaFete again this year!

sparklingfaces wrote:


- edited to say -

Ashley -
Oh lord girl - I sucked out there... yall threw titties in my face and I basically went blind!

No i'm not offended and I didn't feel any digital fingers pointing my way..
I guess in my mind i was still arguing with this anonymous person....

I'm not upset or anything....everyone is free to their opinion

Haha! It is a bit shocking the first time around!! Your koi was really pretty! And you made a really cute purple monkey