Tips for working for tips!

So i've been reading some newer and older threads in here, one in particular that was started back in 2009 and died in 2011. I've been reading some about how some painters just aren't making any tips, or that they NEVER work for tips because it's not worth it. I have some insights and I thought this might be a good idea for a new thread!

On to the meat and potatoes
Like i said I was reading how you should NEVER work for tips, and other stories where artists have worked their butts off for nickles and dimes, or very low returns. I'll agree NEVER work for free, but tips is another deal and ff you do it right you can make some good cash.

I do a lot of farmers markets in the summer to fill in time between gigs, I get in practice on new designs, market myself, and have some fun while I'm at it. Usually the gigs where i work like this are local outdoor markets, farmers markets and night markets mostly, and i make decent money. I don't make my party rate of course but it was money i didn't have before, and I had free time.

I'll name a few places, all of them I didn't have to pay for a spot, and all of them were strictly 'tips', some even supply the tent, table and chairs for me! Ok so one time I pulled over $200 from one farmers market on a rainy day for only 3 hours of work, sunny days are usually $300+ at this spot. I often average $300 - $450 at a night market that I attend once a week in the summer, ALL' tips' for about 4 hours of work.

How Do I do It?
It wasn't always like this and I still  catch people trying to nickle and dime me, but though trying MANY different methods (and i'm sure even more to come) I have come up with a few tricks that help you get WAY more tips and never do a 3+ hour event  again with only a few bucks to show for it.

Most of these are pure psychology! So at last; in no particular order here are....

My methods for making tips work!

- Make your first ones count
If you just planted your setup. make sure the first 1-3 faces you do are EXTRA awesome. Encourage your brightest eye catching colors! The parents will be thrilled to tell others where their kids got it done. You now have walking advertising.

- Seek out vendors children
Even better if you can find vendors who bring their kids (some do). I usually offer to paint them for free because they will be at the market all day running around with my artwork on them. Also I some times get free trade from their parents for 'being so nice'. :)So glad the pizza guy brings his kid! Free Lunch Anyone?

- Proper Language
NEVER have a sign that says 'free' if you are working for solely for "tips". Sure a free sign might bring people to your table, but it's under a false pretense. Your table should already be inviting enough without the word 'free' attached to anything. 

Most important of all, don't use the word 'tip', use 'donation'.
The word 'tip' brings different things to mind for different people, but mostly it's used for 'service people' such as waitress's, bellhops, valets etc. People who (in Canada at least) are already paid by their employer for their work, and what they get from you is a bonus! Unless the event is paying you to be there don't use the term 'tip'. Donation is a stronger more powerful word, it brings to mind a deliberate action of giving a decent amount of money to another person/organization. Some times i get asked 'what is the donation for?' and i reply 'new paints!' with a giggle, but it's rare i'm ever even asked this. Don't under estimate the power that changing a single word can have on changing how people think about what you do.

Pocket Questions & Answers
I have a few responses 'in pocket' to more common questions I get, again language is important.

Q. 'What's a typical donation for this design?'
A. I have two answers for this one depending who's asking. I'll either quote my sign's suggested rate, or I'll say "what ever you think is fare. " or "my min is $X but how about you tell me what you think when is more generous or well off. I find most people really don't want to pay too little! They just don't know what it's worth in all honesty, as some things that are common to us are no so in the minds of these people; MOST of all the non artistic types. Richer people are also used to paying more for things I find, but don't put much value in art on the street. Again make a call. But never do the joke of "1 million dollars!" or have a pin that says 'suggested tip $2673" or some other insane number because you are suggesting your work isn't valuable or serious and worst of all... is a joke.

Q. 'what is the donation for?' (this one is more rare)
A. 'New paints!' with a giggle

- Signage
Most events will allow you to say "suggested donation" or even display signs saying that or 'minimum donation' for full faces. Again when they are handing you the donations if they are short on your minimum donation you can say "oh! I'm sorry there is a minimum donation of $5 on full faces" and point to your sign!
Most people have the extra and will pay it to avoid waiting for their child to choose another design, OR they don't want to make YOU wait AND your line wait for them. LISTEN to what they have to say, if you hear
"ok Suzzie pick something else" it usually means they don't want to pay much. But this doesn't mean they don't have the money, they are just being cheap. Unless the kid or parent can give you a snap decision of their cheaper selection, paint the next child and make them wait while they choose another design.
If you hear "Oh this is all we have today.", "I spent my most of my cash already" or "ok Suzzie, mommy only has $2 so pick a new one." This usually means they genuinely don't have the extra few bucks. For them i offer to do something 'like' the chosen design but faster or with less detail.

The best thing about having signs is that it's not your fault if they don't read them, it's THEIRS and they know it.

- Don't have a tip jar!!!!
This is the most important one. So I'm going to go into a lot of detail here.
Tip jars are TERRIBLE at 'by donation' events. Let me count the ways:


~ You can't keep track of exactly how much people are giving you per design


~ Tip jars are based on an honor system to an extent. And people some times drop money in at random! Did this person prepay while they were waiting? Are they paying after i paint? Did they even pay? Events are loud, kids are loud, you are concentrating on your work. Keeping track of hearing the 'cling' of change in your jar just adds more work AND stress. Also good luck hearing the sound of paper money.  


~ Unless it's attached to your table it can be swiped! (Had this happen once. Stealing from a face painter, what's next... punching kittens?)


~ It's hard to give change! Some people won't even ask for change, and then are more likely to give less rather then give up their $20 bill some times. Some might reach into your jar for change! And you have no idea if they are taking more then what they say they are giving.


~ I've even had kids play with the jar, opening the lid grabbing their coins, closing the lid and putting them back through the hole just for fun.


~ It shows how much you are worth. This can go many ways: Can be good if there are loads of bills but bad if there are any coins under $1 or $2, or even if some one have you $5+ in change, people don't think that that! Their brains see each coin individually, and the connection is made for smaller donations for your work, in toonies and loonies (obvious I'm Canadian yet? lol). Also it can be bad if you have too much! Some may think you are doing pretty well for yourself already, and will feel better about giving less! I have read many articles on human psychology when it comes to 'cheating' a little bit and how we convince ourselves it's ok for various reasons. This is one of em!


~ It's disconnected. This is not a personal transaction at all, it almost feels anonymous. People feel like the 'sound' of them paying is the transaction, by dropping a handful of change it makes a louder sound, they feel like they are paying more. I know it sounds crazy but it's not, trust me. And most importantly they are not looking you in the eye when they do it!

So what do i propose as an alternative? A fanny pack. Or any type of pocket or pouch you can wear around your waist!

Here are the benefits:
~ You know EXACTLY how much you are getting.

~ It makes people have to be honest!

~ It's no longer random, parents know they pay you when it's their kids turn. Nice and orderly like.

~ No one will invade your personal space to get change now! No more hands on your money but yours from now on.

~ One less important thing for kids to play with on your table

~ It's no longer on display! People don't get to see how much you already made. They have nothing to base their donation off of except what is on display - like your signs! And for all they know you are a poor face painter trying to get by.  

~ It's more theft proof! The reason why these packs were invented!

~ People have to look you in the eye when they give you a donation. This leads to bigger tips! People feel fine when slyly slipping change into your jar when you are not looking (again relying on the 'cling') but are less likely to do so when they have to look you in the eye and place a bad tip or a bunch of nickles and dimes in your hand!

General advice on having a change pouch:
- Carry a float for change, I find about $30 does me fine to start. $10 in 5's, $10 in 2's and $10 in 1's

- Put their money in AFTER you give them change. Place it on your lap, or something, but don't throw it in then get their change. Had one guy give me a $5, and when I gave him change he insisted that he gave me a $10! With out having the bill in front of me what could I do? I tried to tell him but he wouldn't listen and kept insisting. Lucky I didn't have any $10 bills in my purse at the time! I had to show him for him to admit his mistake (or back down from his public lie). Lesson learned!

Pocket Questions & Answers
Q. 'Where's your bucket/jar/tin?' 'Where do i put my money?'
A. 'Right here!' point to my pouch and smile/giggle 

Q. 'Oh I've never seen that before, why do you do that?' (most other painters i switch off with at the same markets use jars)
A. 'I've had problems in the past with jars being stolen.' (No need to explain further!)


- Know when to get the money first
For the most part I leave paying till the end, i find i get bigger donations that way after they see the final result! But some times you want to get the money first, because you know that you won't be getting much from this client. Keep an eye out for moms in line looking to make change by searching in their purse (other moms know they have enough to pay you, this one is scrapping her hand bag to find quarters), or kids holding the set amount they were given to pay you (kids like to do this some times, so they feel like they are the ones paying ), or older kids who you know won't give you much. With these cases don't wait till the end to get the donation, get it BEFORE you paint. That way they get what they paid for and not any more time you might have spent on extra details. Like a good bar tender a face painter has to be aware of the surrounding environment, who is next, who has money in hand, who needs a parent with them etc. This is just as vital if you want to make good money and not waste time on details for those who can't pay for them. If I'm in a well off neighborhood, i usually wait til the end, if I'm in a low income area, i ALWAYS get it first.

I know this can be a sensitive topic, but I also get money up front when painting foreign people. NOT because of race but because of culture. For example in Japan it's considered mildly insulting to give any more then the marked price as you are suggesting that the person you are tipping didn't give you enough service, OR you are suggesting they look poor and NEED extra money. Middle eastern cultures are usually hagglers, they start extremely low and you are supposed to counter with something really high, and on and on until you meet in the middle. In Iran you are supposed to come in low, and they refuse and come in high, and on and on until you meet in the middle, and it's all just to show manners. In India, they LOVE to see what they can get for free, or VERY cheap, and in China the people are very frugal. Here in my city the area with the highest concentration of Chinese have all kinds of problems; such as all the sugar and honey getting taken at the coffee shops, or even the toilet paper in the washrooms! Community gardens have all their fresh produce taken. But you have to remember that to them this is NOT stealing. In their culture if something is out in public like that then it's considered free game. They don't think not to take all the sugar because there won't be any left for others, they think they are saving money and being frugal. China is SO over populated it's every man for himself.
Now of course not EVERY Chinese, Indian, or middle eastern person is the same. Many have adapted to OUR western culture and manners, and others were born or raised here. But with that said, be aware if you hear anyone speaking a foreign language to their kids in your line, and try to familiarize yourself with the accents and cultures that are most prolific in your city or the area you are working. Understanding other cultures and customs can save you or them feeling insulted later on. So to avoid any cultural misunderstandings I try to get the money up front.

Pocket Questions & Answers
Me wanting money up front: "Hello! Do you have your donation ready?" or "How much would like to donate today?"

- Never paint unattended children
Obvious liability reasons aside, always insist on a parent being present because this WILL lead to better tips.
 Here's why:
~ Kids don't know what a quarter or a dime is a shitty tip... but parents do. They'll try to send little Timmy to you with some pocket change to do their dirty work of giving a shitty tip, but their tone usually changes when they are the ones who have to look you in the eye.  

~ They get to see you work! They see you are actually an artist and their perceived value for your craft increases.

~ A big reason for being at these gigs is exposure, you want to give the business card to the parent (kids are more likely to lose them or crew on them), and also say "Oh! I also do birthday parties!" *hand them a card*. Tell a kid that and they will forget to relay the message to their mum because their only concern is their awesome face paint, and so it should be! Connect with the parent, they are the ones who are actually paying you.

Pocket Questions & Answers
Me to unattended child: "Hi there!" *Quick look around for parent* most of the time the parents are paying attention (or hiding behind you lol) and they will see you looking for them, for those who don't make eye contact and give me a wave or something, i say "Can you point out your mommy or daddy for me?" or -insert family member here- or nanny. That usually does the trick and if they are close i can get their attention right away and wave them over. ALWAYS wave them over and say something like "There you are! She/He was wondering where you went!" that gives them a tiny lesson i feel, about leaving their 6 year old unattended in a crowded public place, thinking I'm a baby sitter because they were too bored to stand in line. (/rant. sorry this is a REALLY big pet peeve of mine) Any way it's a subtle reminder with out being to harsh. At this point you can get permission to paint (who knows if the kid got in line by themselves right?), talk about price, or just have them stand there and watch. I always use the line "she/he wanted a full face and i just wanted to check it was ok with you!" (some parents do NOT want their kids to have paint all over the face and lips as they might be doing somewhere etc)

- Pick the right event/place
"Well duh!" i hear you say to your computer screen. But hear me out; some times it's not just the type of event, it's where the even is being held. I've done lots of different farmers markets all over the city and for far there are only about 3 or 4 that i would ever go back to (and most are run by the same organization). The neighborhood has to be one that you want to market to. I hate stereotyping, racism and the 'class system' but lets face it you don't really go the markets around skid row. Also some neighborhoods ARE more stingy, and some times it is a cultural thing too, I stopped painting at 'Bollywood' fests LONG ago after some really negative experiences with cultural views towards my art, and how it 'should be free' i was told over and over again.
Pay attention who what kind of people live where, maybe dip your toe in the water for a gig or two in a neighborhood you are unfamiliar with for a few days. But one bad day busking, or painting by donation doesn't mean they will all be bad days. Keep trying NEW ways on how you operate, and it can work. In fact it can work all the way to the bank![/color]


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Wow that was long! Now this is what works for me where I live on the west coast of Canada with the hippy pot smokers. maybe they are just more generous? No idea. Not saying this is fool proof or that it's free of errors. Just sayin' it works for me and I do make good money at my local haunts.

If it's going to be a sunny Saturday at the Farmers Market, no gigs booked that day,
I will have fun, be outdoors in the shade (maybe read a book if there is a lul in the line), get more practice, make new designs, get more photos for my gallery, meet more new potential clients etc. Sure I paint more faces often for less then my hourly rate, but it's really not work for me. I LOVE it. And the work more then pays for itself in supply costs.

Some parents tip small, but others OVER tip and it kinda evens out. My partner and I have a game we play of who can get the most ridiculous tip that day and over all that we have ever had. He held the record with a $15 small cheek butterfly (one of our normally $3 designs), I beat him out with a $10 fly. Yeah a 'fly' i put almost no effort into, it was a black dot with wings and a buzz trail; lady handed me $10 and walked away. Shocked. I beat my own record last year with a $25 ladybug, wasn't even sitting on a leaf like i normally do them. Plain lady bug $25 tip. I had to ask the guy "do you want change?" he waved the question off, said 'no' and walked away. Mind was blown.

Ok starting to go on forever. Wonder if anyone will even read my ramblings :p

Thanks for reading if you did!

I did read the ramblings! lol
Great post. I'll remember these suggestions. Thanks for taking your time to write them out.

great write up...

This was great! Thank u for all the tips

My pleasure! Thanks you everyone for reading, I hope these tips and tricks help everyone make more money at their next 'donation' gig!

Let me know the results!!!

I am so glad you wrote this. Your cultural points where interesting. My last gig, was a corporate event and the face painting was free for patrons and I had a wonderful day. All the parent were wonderful except for two Indian moms. In both cases, they stood behind me and criticized my work and demanded more to the design. One insisted I start over because in the rainbow 1/2 mask I did on her daughter, I outlined the cloud in grey but apparently used blue in my sample picture. They were intense while everyone else seemed grateful.

I enjoyed your post - thanks for the wealth of information. The only thing I have a problem with (for myself) is having only some people pay upfront, while most can pay after. When working in real estate, the one thing that really stuck with me was - whatever you do (when dealing with the public), you must do consistently. That is the only way to avoid any discrimination claims. But I also totally get your suggestion and see why that works for you.

As far as cultures, etc. I refuse to play their games. I know that in some cultures, slurping your soup is considered a compliment, but I still will never do it. I get the whole “when in Rome” concept, but on my home turf, they can adjust to MY culture - such as the price is what it is, period. And from my experience (which is admitedly very limited compaired to yours), the people with the lower incomes treat me better and tip me better. The wealthy people just treat me like a number, another hired service.

Question: If you “require” a minimum donation - how is that different from just charging out right? Has anyone ever expressed a problem with a “minimum donation”? I’m assuming if you actually charged outright, that you’d have to pay a vendor fee? I’m considering approaching some markets out here, but would rather not pay a vendor fee.

That was full of great information. Thank you for taking the time to share.

@ other fish
Yes this is very common in Indian Culture in my experience. I had the exact same mom you did (she shape shifts), she wanted the design to be exactly like the photo her daughter chose, however the design was on the forehead and i was painting it on a girl who had very little room under the hairline to speak of. The mom complained and demanded i add more to the bottom.... then  more glitter, then she complained because the gem cluster i used for different. ON and ON. There is was no pleasing this woman. NEVER had anyone like that before or after.

Another party I did recently for an Indian mom 10 min in she demanded i at least paint 5 more kids before i leave.... she had me for an hour.... i told her not to worry, that all the kids will get something. At the end she had me wait for another kid who never appeared, while a little boy i painted a spiderman on DEMANDED that i paint one on his other hand.
"I'm sorry it wouldn't be fair to the other kids who only got 1 painting".
"BUT I WANT IT!!!" 
"Honey, my paints are already packed up."
"BUT I WANT IT!!!"
The balloon twister at the party fared no better...

My husband does home renovation some times and once an Indian delivery man arrived with 2 new toilets for the home owner. When Aryn said "ok lets just put these on the ramp and lower them down." (it was a hydraulic ramp run off the truck battery) they guy told him "Ramp costs extra."

Another friend of mine is a flight attendant, and she told me how she and the other attendants hid in the crew areas when they were doing flights with mainly Indian passangers. Because they would run them raggid with endless requests! If it was free they wanted it, didn't matter if they needed it or not. And ENDLESS demands for more and better service.

The worst was the bollywood festival though.
They said they would give us a tent table and chairs.... nothing on arrival, we had to use our own from our car. EVERY Indian person tried to haggle with me and dispute our prices. Aryn made a deal with a mom to paint her 4 kids with a cheek design dragon for $5. He put extra detail into each as these were our first kids and would be good advertising. When he was done the mom handed him a $5 bill and demanded $1 back! "you only painted 4 kids, so it should be $1 each" (they each easily had a $5 design) he tried to remind her that the deal was 4 kids for $5, but it was HER kids that saved the day by telling her how awesome they were and she should 'let' him keep the $1 extra. Ha! 'Let'; it was already his prior to painting. This woman really spent 5 min arguing over a buck...

@ eviedejesus
honestly i'd like it ALL to be upfront lol. But some times i forget, or they do, and then i have to constantly blurt out "have your donations ready!"

Also i think you misunderstood me. I never suggested 'playing their games' merely understanding them. I'm with you there, when they are in MY culture it's going to be by my cultures rules.

as for minimum donation, i have never had a problem with saying this, nor have the event organizers had a problem with it. They understand my time is money and bigger designs can take more time.

Explain the 1:1 nature of face painting to the organizers as JJ put it best in another post
" face painter sits for about five minutes with a child to earn $X and is therefore limited in the amount that can be earned each hour. Whereas someone selling things, like $20 necklaces, can, at a good fair, just quickly sell items all day and probably go home with twice as much as the painter. Sometimes booth fees can be adjusted accordingly with this reasoning."

Thanks so much. I have gotten a few places to allow me to pay them a percentage of what I make (not to exceed the vendor fee) and a few have waived it because I'm an attraction (these were smaller events). I don't think I've had any Indian customers yet, Not looking forward to it if they treat people that way. I had an African Lady act that way on Saturday, but she was drunk, so I wrote it off as the reason for her actions. I wanted to deck her, she pushed my buttons. I really can't stand dealing with drunk people.

Curious;  what was the percentage?

I have of course met nice people from India but I feel they were more integrated into our culture and are of a younger generation. Sadly on average most that I have met while face painting will treat 'service  people' poorly. Again it boils down to cultural differences. I read that in India there is a very strict caste system and 'pecking order', where the lower on the laser you are perceived to be the worse they will treat you. But generally the lower castes fight back to a society that treats them poor by being an indiscriminate jerk to everyone. Also read that in India they spit on people from moving buses, or place their used chewing gum on chairs they just left so the next person to sit will get a nasty surprise. These actions of course just make the higher castes hate them more, and the cycle continues. BUT if you are accommodating they seem to treat you worse and take advantage.
I also read that many are taught that they are superior to Western people, so we fall at the bottom by default.
You don't have to play thier games but being culturally aware is the first step. Of course not all those with an Indian background are like that, and the younger generation are starting to change things. But if you do have some one with an Indian background treat you poorly the best thing to do is remain firm when they try to push for more, as what you give will not satisfy them. They are merely exercising a power they think they have over seeing you as a 'service person'. Ignore it, keep calm and paint on.

Usually 20%, but some have agreed to 10%.

When you do the farmer's markets do you go for the full day? Do people with kids show up at 7am?

Great question - I always wondered that myself!

Great info! Thank you so much for sharing and taking the time to post!

Forest-Fairy,
Thanks for sharing your ideas about working for tips/ donations.
Being from India myself, and very aware of the caste system,  I do not agree with few of your generalized statements about the classes.
There is a thread about nutbar ladies.... and they come in all sizes,  shapes and country origins!

People coming from countries where there is no 'tipping', do not understand the concept. As you rightly said. .. Do not work for tips at Asian events.

From my 4 years in Henna and face painting business. ..I have had to deal with hagglers...but they came from all walks of life and from various economic status. When you are working for donations, you are taking that chance IMO.

I currently have 3 markets I attend

One on Saturday and the other on sunday and they are 9am/10am to 2pm. They provide a table chairs and a nice big umbrella. I paint alone at these ones and I'm put right in the middle too. 
The first hour can be slow, but I've also had a people waiting before i'm even fully set up. Usually I'm painting non stop until the end, with at least 2-5 people waiting. Some even pass on it because 'look how long the line is hon, not today." ha... they haven't seen real lines, I know it's just 'mommy lies' so she can get her shopping done.
These two markets are fresh veggies, butchers and bakers etc. 2-4 hot food trucks, and some music buskers.

The Friday night market Aryn and I paint together at because it's REALLY busy and it is from 5pm-10pm and again, we have a line before we are even set up most of the time. For us it usually ends around 9:30pm, then we grab some food and wait until pack up time.
This market is more crafts and wares for sale, MANY food trucks, beer garden and a live band among other things. This one used to give us a table chairs and tent, but the quality of such changed every night, until we just found it easier to bring our own.

But not all markets are like this, we have done a few that just sucked monkey balls.

2 other markets run by the same people that do my Saturday and Sunday markets are really bad. One I could barely make bus fare at, while the other was in more of a retirement neighborhood. 

We did a chinese night market, again with food, bands, shops etc, but it too was TERRIBLE for face painting. Wrong demographic, it wasn't a place that people brought their families and the Chinese we found on average were just not interested in face paint for their kids. We only seemed to paint what few white people were their with kids and barely broke over $50-$70 for a whole night. This market also started a bit later too if i recall, so it wasn't really geared for people with children in my opinion. 

You really got to pick the right ones as not all markets are the same to any degree.

I did not mean to offend Joshi. Again like I said i have met very nice people from India too, so i know not everyone is the same. After our trip to Egypt Aryn and I became very culturally aware. Our flight attendant friend traveled the world for years and this is only what she told me for the most part. Others have been direct experiences. I do not believe in stereotypes, however I do see why they exist. While it's by no means to say ALWAYS or NEVER, or any definitive, one does tend to notice a pattern with certain cultures. 

We joke that our city is really called 'Hong-couver' instead of Vancouver some times. :p 
After a while seeing 9 out of 10 bad drivers be Asian people you start to wonder if perhaps the stereotypes are true? But i always dismissed it. However after some reading to actually try and understand the reasoning better "why can't these people drive?!?!?!" I found something interesting
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Thousands+Chinese+motorists+could+driving+illegally+Richmond/9719931/story.html
Turns out a LOT of them don't really have a valid drivers licence. That explains a few things. Again understanding is the key. Same goes with how 9 times out of 10 the guy that just cut you off was driving a BMW. On average richer people can afford to pay a small fine, and disregard the rules of the road more. 
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/the-rich-drive-differently-a-study-suggests/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Like you said about not working for tips at an Asian event. It's not to say they are 'bad', just not the same, and that's ok. But it still doesn't work when face painting to make money is concerned.

It's interesting to have to tip toe around a topic like this as not to offend any one, lest some one pull the "You're racist!" card, which i'm glad it hasn't come to that. A lot of people confuse acknowledging cultural differences with being racist. As if to point out some obvious differences makes you a bigoted hater or something. But racism is thinking 'they are all the same' and or hating/fearing other races and cultures. I would like to state, i do not hate, fear, or judge all people the same based on their culture or race. However I acknowledge all people are indeed still not the same and have vast differences, that are some times and can often be shaped by their age, gender, income, and yes shockingly even culture. :/

Peace.

Great post!

ok, I'm going to jump in with my opinion... but please don't hate me

The difference between Canadian and American.

Canadian - Multiculturalism is huge, we love to celebrate all the differences in all the cultures.

American - the Melting Pot, where people come to be American, and blending of all the cultures happen.

What this means is that, I think, in Canada we can see a more pronounced difference between people from different backgrounds. So I think what Forest-Fairy is saying would be more noticeable in Canada.

I could be totally off, but that's just my opinion at this point

Still love me????

PS Love love love the post and the discussion. So proud of this group that we can discuss this without anyone getting nasty (which can happen way to often)

Forest-Fairy wrote: Sadly on average most that I have met while face painting will treat 'service  people' poorly. Again it boils down to cultural differences. In India there is a very strict caste system and 'pecking order', where the lower on the laser you are perceived to be the worse they will treat you. But generally the lower castes fight back to a society that treats them poor by being an indiscriminate jerk to everyone. In India they spit on people from moving buses, or place their used chewing gum on chairs they just left so the next person to sit will get a nasty surprise. These actions of course just make the higher castes hate them more, and the cycle continues. BUT if you are accommodating they will treat you worse and take advantage.
It doesn't help that many are taught that they are superior to Western people, so we fall at the bottom by default.

I am sorry, but I am back to this. I am a very tolerant person and I am fully aware of shortcomings of the Indian culture.
Have you been to India Forest-Fairy?
What you have expressed here Forest-Fairy from your admission....is not your own experience.

I was born in India and lived there for my first 25 years of life. From your description, I should be covered by spit or must have spit on someone or should have stuck a chewing gum somewhere at least once....or got a gum stuck to me. And of course...I must have 'pecked' on lower castes...or must have been 'pecked on'. And, of course, I must think I am superior than all of you!
This is just ridiculous.

This is so not right in so many ways. I can go on and say so many things about Americans and Canadians (I don't know many...I agree)...and yes through my own experiences.

All I am trying to say is....nobody is perfect. No country or culture is perfect. One should always remember that. Also, please remember, that what other people told you is not always the truth...it is just their perception...their point of view. When you are expressing views on a public forum like this, please make sure you do not slander other cultures without firsthand knowledge. You do not know what it is like to be them or what they have been through.

There is a BIG difference in making people aware of different cultures about their views about tipping and what you wrote above.

I am sorry if this is off topic...or if I come off as too protective of my culture....but I think this went too far....without having a first hand knowledge or experience yourself.

Very informative read! There's a lot of points I'm gonna try and remember to try and tweak into my set now.

Joshi,
Obviously, Forest Fairy isn't trying to offend, just being aware and stating some noted difference between cultures. She has gone out of her way to express than she doesn't think all people from all areas behave these ways.
We live in a time when making these observations and (GASP) vocalizing them is frowned upon.
People need to get over themselves and let folks have their own opinions about their observations and experiences.
Clearly YOU are the exception to the opinion Forest Fairy has concluded.
Congratulations.
Maybe letting go would be a good idea now.
This post was more about how to work for donations than the observations about cultures, in the first place. More than anything, it's a call to notice your surrounding environment, and do what works for the situation.

I completely understand rthling.... if the things said were relevant or true. I was just an example. ....whatever was said. .. Was about an average Indian. I am an average Indian person. It must be true for me.
This is why one should not go about saying things about other cultures when you don't know heads or tails of it!

I understand the pain of being stereotyped.
I mean, I'm a white girl, so it's limited, but I'm a fat chick, so I get it.
Fat girls be like...

Meanwhile, she was just giving her observation.
Don't take it personally.