Question about etiquette of using other people designs

New to face painting, and I have a question.

My learning technique is to browse lots of pace painting websites, and copy the bits and piece that I like. Then I pick a design or just a single facete of a design and practise it. Some designs are great and simple so I do not vary them much (thanks beccstar, love some of your web tutorials). Other designs are too complex for me to do in a reasonable time, so I concentrate on how they did something (like a flower), and then I composite a design based on putting together things I know I can do.

The point is I do copy other people’s designs a lot.

When I work I show people a folder with two sections the first is labelled my faces, the second is labelled as designs I would like to try. As I do more work I remove stuff from the latter section and add my version to the first section.

Chris

What is the community feeling on the etiquette about this?

This has been a touchy subject in another thread.

As far as painting someone else's design.... no big deal. After you paint it and photograph it, it's your artwork, and can display however you want. There are a few designs on my menu that are pictures of me because I haven't done one on someone else and been able to get a pic.

Many have problems with using other people's pics in your menu, even if you may label it appropriately, and display it. But as an alternative, keep some reference material aside for your personal use.

I'm just new, but that's what I do...I only show photos of work I've done whether it's someone else's 'original' design or not. Then I have a book for me to practice from. That is just for my use/eyes and it's full of photos I've borrowed from the internet. It's nice to have many different styles to try as you work out your own style.

At the start I did not have enough to populate a folder of my own designs. But it is getting close to the stage where I can just show a folder of just my works. However I still have a small collection of "Want to tries", that I carry around until I can get a willing face to try them on.

I have painted my girls so much over christmas break that I have to bribe them into let me paint their faces. The ussual payment is either lollies or letting them paint me (lollies are a lot cheaper).

I bought mannequin heads online to practice on because my kids (ages 4 and 7) are not as much into it either. Even playdates are hard to tie down kids to get painted. They have too much fun playing with each other and they know they can get painted anytime. My 7 year old has her own and she practices too.

Just never use DFX or Wolfe on a mannequin head...it doesn't come off. These have a skin that you can buy to replace when they get wrecked though that are only $5.50 each. The head has a flat back and it's under $20 USD.
http://salon.wimexbeauty.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=7508

Else, you could maybe make a drawing of the design you want to try?

You could also put a list in your folder of those you want to try and then if someone picks them, refer to your reference. I think in these situations, no one would be upset about their work being used. It is just those who blatantly take anothers work and display it as their own "level" of work.

We have heard reports of others work being used on websites, posters, banners and such and this a pretty clear indication that the person just wanted to convey that it was their own work due to the permanent nature of the item it was used on.

But if you are using it in a folder that can be changed up and label the work properly, I wouldn't think you were stepping on anyone's toes.

Exactly, I know a facepainter who has copied pictures from Snazaroo's contests and blew up the pictures and put them on a poster. You can clearly see the lil clown on the bottom hand corner of each picture and we live in Texas so whose to say that Gary Cole might stroll through a festival and see her poster?

ok I know this is not going to be popular but this is real. I started painting because I was a single mom my income was cut and I was running out of money to feed my kids. I convinced a magician I could paint grabbed some pictures I new I could paint from the internet and a small pallet of wolf paint and jumped right into parties. I never claimed fo the pictures to be mine - I said that represented what I could paint and off I went. Lucky for me I had a natural gift and it all worked out and now I work every weekend. I post my pictures all the time - I never watermark them. the reason I never watermark them is because maybe someone will benefit from my work and I'm ok with that. I always share what I know. I am very greatful that I found a way to make $100 an hour standing up and we all walk away smiling. So to that extent I stood on the shoulders of those that have gone before me and I hope I can be a step up for someone else to return the favor.

See. Lots of different opinions. It's hard when you're new and trying to start out.

I was at a festival once and saw a young face painter. My daughter asked to get painted, and I'm all for supporting another artist, and it was only a buck. (Yep, and I was curious about her stash and didn't want to be all intrusive) She had a book, and most of it was filled with printiouts from the interent. It definitely wsan't respresentative of her skill level. She was very nice, chit chatted with my daughter while I purused her book, and looked in her tackle box from afar. I didn't say anything, or even tell her I was a painter. I was unsure of boundaries, and other customers arrived.

I'm not sure how I felt about it. I don't think I would have been over-boiled in anger if I saw one of my pictures in there. I felt a little bad for the other people in line who excitedly picked out their designs, that this girl didn't have the proper supplies and skills for. Not yet anyway. But it was a dollar and you get what you pay for.

I guess that's why this, and how to clean your brushes, is such a fence-line topic.

The Snaz site does have this listed (below) in the guidelines regarding photos and it is very helpful if you are starting out. I was happy to see this because I needed to borrow some when I first started and then I just built up my book slowly with my own pics.

"They MAY select their favorite designs and cut and paste them to create a booklet or small signboard for children or customers to select from. This may be done with the following understanding... the images can not be larger than 2 inches wide and 3 inches tall. On each page you print, you must state in text that is at least a tenth of an inch tall font "The photos represented on this page are not necessarily painted by the artist or the company represented at this event. They are used with permission from www.snazaroo.us where artists from around the world submit and share photos. They should not be used outside the boundaries as listed at www.snazaroo.us/faqphotos.htm ".

Yes, the photos are basically to be use for the reference of the artist.

Chris, the way you are doing it sounds fine. You are not misrepresenting yourself or claiming another artists work as your own. You are doing it the right way. It is best if you have permission from the actual artist or at least credit them as the artist on the photo.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, based on what I have been told and read so far this is my current thinking.

My first two jobs were as a volunteer parent at school fetes, at that stage I have no experience or samples. All I have some examples of the basics (butterfly, pirate, cat, dog, spiderman, monster mask), all of these found off the internet. We worked for free and results were rough, but kids were still happy. Most people do not start out as serious I think, most would be parents roped into it one way or another. I think it is ok for an amateur to work from other people patterns, because realistically I cannot see it happening any other way.

I have had 1 paid job so far. I show people my own works first; some kids want something other than my limited works. So I showed them my collection of downloaded samples, but making it clear that I had not painted any of them, but would like to try them. Any displayed (advertising) works should be your own, but having a few other samples of patterns to try is not a big sin, as long as you are not implying that they are your own.

About the only thing I could do better is to credit the original artist, but I failed to collect that information. You know, I like that, so copy and paste it into my ideas directory. Then later I browse thought the ideas directory and pick out what I want to try.

A nice thing about this industry is that it is not very cut throat. It is very supportive; most people seem very willing to help out people. But I think there is a turning point is where a person decides to do it for profit, where money is paid over the client has expectations, and we as peers do not want the reputation of the industry tarnished. So we expect hold the professionals up to certain standards (insurance, hygiene and advertising).

Well said!

That is the reason I put my website on my photos. Not because I don't want anybody else to use them, but since I love when other do that, so when I save a photo from the Internet for inspiration, I can go back later and still be reminded who made it =)

This can be such a touchy subject and I think it has been discussed honestly here in this thread. We all start out somehow.

There can be a lot of ego associated with stolen pictures and while it is frowned upon in the strictly academic sense, I think in practical use almost every painter uses other's pictures to some degree.

I think as long as you aren't using someone else's pictures in your logo, banner, signage, website or other semi-permanent displays or advertisements then there is not an issue.

I still only have about 4 pages of my own photos (9 pictures on each page) that I use for parties and paying work. I keep a folder of other folks' pictures with me for inspiration and I bring those pictures out when I am playing.

All in all, thanks to everyone who has had the courage to post.

~Michelle (sorry for any typos!)

Basically I only ever used my own pics, even when I started. If I didn't have a pic of what I wanted to do - no biggy! I drew them, or listed them, or TALKED about them. ASK the kids if they want that, explaining they may be the pic you then use to show others.

I think its wrong.
Its not just that you are using someone else's photo - and 1 of the main problems in the UK especially is the whole child-safety thing is SO blown up that the original painter AND you could conceiveably get in huge trouble if the parents caught you using that photo (as often we have to have written permission to take pics let alone use them!).

Its also that the standard shown is NOT yours - you may be better, you may be worse, but its not you. Its also the reason people who cut photos out of 'old' Snazaroo etc books (- which no offence are generally pretty ropey by todays standards -) annoy me. How often have I visited an event with a not-very-pro painter who's board advertises some fab designs, usually not her work, to see disappointed kids expecting a fabulous Wolfe-style face appearing with a smeary blob? Its false advertising.

When I'm working in a country where I do speak the language, I don't use photos apart from in my banner anyway. I may have 'lists' up to give the queue an idea, but that is it. It means you can change, adapt etc and loses the 'you missed out 1 dot thats in the photo' type of comments.

Yes I have saved/ printed photos of other peoples work, its what we all do for inspiration. But its for inspiration! (Even if some designs I love so much I copy outright ). Customers don't get to see the originals, I flick thru in slow patches or when I'm about to start a relaxed / self paint.

Only use your own work. Its a truer advert for your skills AND avoids any awkwardness with other painters.

Cat x

Hi Cat,
Your work is amazing, you obviously have an artistic back ground and went into this face painting very seriously. I am a parent and have done no art in twenty years, I was give 1 weeks notice that I needed to help out at my kids preschool fete. The kit supplied to me was 5 tubes of acrylic paint and a couple large old ratty brushes. I painted a face on each of my girls on the weekend, although they enjoyed it, before they start scratching off the paint, because they could not stand the feel of it on their skin. So I did not get any more practice. As a result I felt I need better supplies, and bought my own starter kit consisting of dozen TAG colours and one rainbow split cake, because I did not want the acrylic paints on my girls again.

The other parent to turn up and no practice or patterns (I was given them all), so we painted the standard simple stuff, our work was blobby at times. The only thing that really looked good was a simple “becstarr” design consisting of rainbow, hearts, and stars. Despite all this the kids were happy. Soon after that my daughters were invited to 2 parties, and I took my paints for fun and practice. Then the painter for my work’s Christmas party cancel at last moment, so I offered to standing in (34 kids in 3 ½ hours). So only after 6 jigs did I accept my first paying job.

I am not a professional at this, it is a hobby I hope that I can get paid for occasionally. I do now have a collection of works to display, but if I do another school fete and I get another parent helping me I will not ask them for samples of their work. It is hard enough getting volunteers as it is.

A professional needs to display their own works, but a amateur volunteer cannot be expected to. We do not live in a black and white world, there are shades of grey. The transition from “just helping out” to “professional jigs” may take a bit.

Chris

I spent months painting my kids and my face over and over before I started face painting professionally so that I could get a 'book' together. I just thought it more 'correct' of myself to do it that way and plus it gave me practice. Unfortunately my face is all over my book (I wish it wasn't) LOL!! That is my 2 cents!

Life can be complicated there is correct and there is feeding your kids. In the beginning I chose to feed my kids. I have never misrepresented a photo and said it was my own, but I needed to work. I support 2 kids on my own because I left in the middle of the night to go into a domestic violence shelter and I gave up rights to child support for the safety of myself and my kids. I happened to have fallen in love with the art form and I have gone legit I am a legal corporation and I have insurance. I have never disappointed a kid with my skill level. I didn't have the luxury of time to create a book I was in crisis and made the best of it.

to each their own I guess... nobdy has the correct answer... Just do what works best for you!!

Thanks for the compliment, and I do understand.

But I still wouldn't use anyone else photos, (and I didn't when i started when it was just a hobby once every few months for me.) If 'they' take offence they won't not sue you just because you aren't doing it for a job. Look at that poor lady Disney had a go at - she painted once a year for her town's small fete, and the daughter of a couple there saw her use Disney face and called in the lawyers. I also heard of a face-paint book that someone bought and chopped up to use as a poster and the publishers had a go at her. Its sad but it happens.

Just don't use photos at all if you don't have them/ the time or money to draw some on paper - they are just trimmings and as said a lot of us don't use them at all. With a sign saying 'face painting' MOST kids/ families know what to expect and will ask for what they want which usually we can cope with!

cat x