Finagling 101: Making the most of PPF

I spend most of my evenings these days reading old posts here... loads of good info. Found something I want to ask about:

We've done some private birthday parties, but the goings were slow. We wanted to get into festivals, but the booth space is often expensive and we want to be certain to recoup the investiment. What's a new painting duo to do?

We were invited to an event, free booth space, and it was great! We didn't make a whole lot, but the experience was great, and it got our name out, plus another gig. And every time we're out there, we draw more attention. Yay!

Now to my question... I saw that there are some here who are able to convince event organizers to not charge, or discount because facepainting is an attraction. How does this conversation go? Or an email? Much help needed!

Thanks!!!

It usually goes through several emails as they want all the money they can.

What I usually offer them is several senarios and have been amazed at who accepts what.

1. They can pay me my normal rate, I charge the customers and give the money back to the organizers. This allows them to have a professional level painter, while recouping or even profiting from the face painting.

2. I will come do PPF, but they do have to pay the $50 travel, supplies, insurance fee.

3. I will come do PPF and if they insist to be paid, I will return a % of the profits. You tell them that PPF is very risky and if their event is as well attended as they claim(but in a super nice and profesional way) then they will easily reocup the normal fees.

No matter how you slice it PPF are very risky and from my experience not profitable for most. However, you can make a lot of "cash" off the books, get a lot of experience, see a new event, and possibly book more jobs. The more jobs and exposure we do, the more jobs and exposure get.

Also, MAKE SURE they know how good you are. I negotiated forever with a woman to no avail as to why she shouldn't charge me. It was only when she saw me at another event, saw my speed and skill level, did she email back and agree. Make a video of yourself if you can. I need to.

There is NO way, except in the most rare occations, should you pay for space. For these reasons:

Face Painting is considered and attraction, will attract crowds, will be a children's activity, will provide them with wonderful marketing photos for everyone, everyone expects face painting at events, you will NEVER make a profit.

Don't get me wrong. I do PPF, but I go into knowing it is mostly for exposure, and experience and will most likely only cover my expenses.

I am sure Angie will chime in as she does PPF a lot and find them very profitable. Of course she regularly makes live sacrafices to the face painting gods, which I am just not willing to do. LOL

Hope this helps and am looking forward to other responses as well.

We are in a situation around here where there are so many face painters that are willing to pay the booth fees that we are lucky to be able to be the one with the booth. Some events are totally worth it... I did Dragon Boats a while back, they wanted 20% of the profits for the cause and I still made about $700! Other events are not so hot and you're lucky to break even.

Just an idea, but I've worked out something with the farmer's market I've been working lately where they had a coupon printed in an advertisement they placed and in exchange for me accepting the coupon (I got to pick what it said on the coupon) I don't have to pay the booth fee. What we worked out is the coupon is good for a free: small, one colour design (spider, butterfly brush butterfly, hearts, star, etc.) OR $2 off my regular designs... I figure there will be some that just do the free thing, but a lot of kids will see the good designs and for $2 off will put out some money and get that instead. With no booth fee to worry about, I won't end up losing money either way.

I do almost all PPF, and I usually reserve my booth space. I guess its a good thing that festivals in my area only charge about $20 - $40 for a spot! LOL Only once did I come out losing money, though, and it was still good exposure. I'm terrible at haggling... though I was recently invited to join the local Arts Council so I might be able to talk them into giving me a free booth at the Christmas festival... buahahaha!

This make me feel good about not doing a 5 day festival over 2 weekends but the booth space was $450! I was too scared to fork over that kind of money for an unknown... no guarantee that I'd get that back, plus the benefits for the the 5 days of effort! (And the organizer neglected to mention there was another painter booked already, we didn't get far enough to ask... learned something else new).

Metina wrote:
3. I will come do PPF and if they insist to be paid, I will return a % of the profits. You tell them that PPF is very risky and if their event is as well attended as they claim(but in a super nice and profesional way) then they will easily reocup the normal fees.

So, in this case, would you return the profit until you reached the amount they had requested, or take the "gamble" with them and if you make more, they make more too?

Wow great suggestions Metina and Perry. I was offered a ppf at a car show out of town. They wanted 30% and didn't provide anything (no table, no shade.. nothing) I also had to drive 1 hour to get there. I turned them down as I figured I would need another person to handle the money too and didn't think I would make enough to cover my costs.

One thing I've done for paying gigs is to put out a tip jar with a sign that reads "Proceeds to xyz" This helps reduce the sponsor's cost especially if it's a non profit group. One time, I got my regular np rate and they ended making money off of me because the tips were so good. People seem to be more generous when they know the tips are going to a 'cause'.

Two good points. YES always get the exclusive on being the only face painter. The only situation another painter being there benefits you it if the other painter is pants! and you won't know it till you get there.

I would say a % up to the fee, but upping there profits does put a better spin on it for them and they would be more likely to bite and bring you back knowing that you are profitable.

Also, do some price investigating. Make sure you are charging as much as the market can bear. No need to leave money on the table.

-Metina

When I did dragon boats for a percentage, there was no "up to" ... you might end up paying them more, but as long as the percentage isn't over 20 or 30, you're still up that much money too and you've developed an even better relationship with a very successful set of event planners.

I've gotten most festivals to waive my booth fee in exchange for me even coming to their event. I do PPF.....and it's a toss up. Depends on how many people are there, what their economy is like in their town, etc. I've done well on some and a total BUST on others. Normally how it works is when I cold call the event coordinators to ask if they have a face painter they send me forms that have a booth fee listed.

I just recently negotiated a waiver of $125.00 for a booth fee for two days in late September. I was simply nice and told the Chamber Director that normally I was PAID to come to events and that there was no way I could recoup my expenses if I paid the booth fee on top of all my other costs! It worked. I've got a 5000 plus foot traffic event. The community is very family oriented.

They're charging $15.00 for a two day pass into the event so I did not offer a percentage of sales back.

Other questions to ask are how many people are coming to the event. I don't know the exact statistics to use, but I have read that you can only expect 1-10% of attendees to be painted. I think 2-3% is the most accurate though.

So 5,000 in traffic equates to 50-500 people. Star, how many people do you think you painted that day?

Or... don't do PPF. That's my solution.

If I'm asked (which is very rare nowadays) I tell them my fee, and that I am able to make a presentation to potential sponsors, if they have them, about my services and how it would benefit the event and the sponsor.