How do you rate a painter's skills?

As I dable in the world of "acting as an agent" there is a lot to learn. I am wondering how do you classify a painter's skill level without being rude. Some jobs are fine with a newbie with a couple months experience and some need a higher level.

There is a list in my area where we all network for jobs and such and until now I have just said how many faces per hour the jobs need and to send me some samples. But some of the emails I get back, are from those who are just starting and I don't want to be rude, but aren't exactly appropriate for the job.

I was trying to think of a rating scale or something. Are there set skill levels in this industry I could refer to? Should I ask for a certain number of years experience. I don't want to turn away someone who has loads of natural talent who only started three months ago, but it is also heart breaking to dash the hopes of those just starting out(like I was 3 years ago)

Any thoughts?

Tell them the truth, but in a nice way. That you are looking for someone who can do a design the same standard (send an example of a normal design like tiger or butterfly) in less than five minutes. And then maybe what they need to improve on. Plus that they are welcome to contact you again, when they are at that level.

I agree. I wish there was a test of sorts so that face painters could get their rating level...that would probably make things so much easier for you. How cool would it be able to apply for a job and say "I'm a certified Category B or A or D painter"? I would certainly take the test because I need to know where I am honestly...in my own eyes, I'm crap but in the eyes of many who don't know better, I'm brilliant. It would be nice to know objectively how you stand.

I was on the UK site reading some old posts and I came across a long one in which a painter was asking whether or not her 70 pound quote for a party was too high or too low for a 2 hour party. After looking at the painters gallery, the ladies on the site tried (tactfully at first) to convince her that she was not at the skill level to justify charging that much, but the poor thing just didn't want to accept that. I looked at her work and I could see where the rest of the painters were talking about. The girl went ahead and booked the party for 50 pounds for 2 hours and then turned around and asked what types of faces she should paint for that particular age demographic! The gloves came off and people started to bluntly explain her dilemma to her, but she took offense. It was really painful to read. I think that having an objective testing system would probably have benefitted her as she even admitted that she didn't see her painting as that far off from the pros...unsightly linework and all.

How can we go about getting such a test? I think it would be soooo helpful!

It would be nice if the US would embrace the FACE membership like in the UK. This would be a good start as there is a pretty basic test, but it really seperates the field. Must have good bases, crisp line work ect..

Unfortunatley Gary Cole is the only person in the US and Shannon F. is the one in Canada who can do the testing, so you see how this could make getting more on board a bit difficult. Not the people, just the lack of testing opportunities.

Here is their website if anyone wants to contact them also. http://www.facepaint.co.uk/

Maybe i'll contact them and see what their take is?

Cool! I was interested in making FACE membership my goal until I found out that Gary was the ONLY rep here! I know I'm not ready yet, but it wold be nice to have something less arbitrary to strive for!

I sent in an inquiry and maybe Shannon could give us some guidance on how to get more testing opportunities in the US.

I also want a test! Like you, Lady Jayde, friends and people who aren't into this quite as much think my stuff is amazing, when really it is beginner level (and I also pick apart every little tiny mistake). I asked a local artist if she ever used assistants, and she pretty much said my work is good for starting out, but that to recommend someone or bring them with her she was very picky (needed a certain skill level). I'm glad she said that. I'd hate more than anything to be lied to and then disappoint the customers. So yeah just be honest and not rude about it (which I doubt you would be). They're probably all adults, right? They can handle it.

Oh and if any of you design a test, I want in. I'll be a guinea pig!

Ah just saw the last couple...cool Metina! Keep us posted.

I know who you are talking about from the UK list... she is thick as two planks to put it bluntly. And she can be nasty.

The reason FACE was started was to set a basic standard for face painting - anyone who passed the test was capable and able to produce a decent standard of work, work in a hygenic manner and have the ability to work with people. So clients who hire a FACE member know that they are getting someone that meets a standard skill level.

The requirements for the exam are to be able to paint three standard faces: Tiger, White base design (like a clown or geisha, etc.) and a three-colour blend (sometimes a sunset). The white base is a test of the sponge work and ability to apply an even base - white is the most difficult colour to do this with so it shows how your technique is, the tiger and the three colour blend show your ability to blend, and the tiger shows your ability to do linework.

There is NO requirement for originality in this exam, the designs do NOT have to be fancy or detailed - you can paint copies of designs from books even, there is no penalty for that, it is just suggested that you don't refer to an image.

There is also a written application that is fairly long - it is NOT a test, just a questionnaire asking about your experience, what products you use, how you set-up etc. It requires photos of your set-up, and sample of your work.

I first inquired about joining in 1997 - when there were no conferences or international members. At that time it was possible to do the test via video... film myself painting the faces in real time and submit that. Since I didn't have a camcorder I didn't do that... took until 2004 to actually do my exam at a convention where there was a FACE member available to do it.

ANY FACE member can conduct the examination - there are a few in the US. One in NJ/NY... Gary of course, and I think there are a few others. Gary does get around so if he is attending or teaching a class anywhere near you, you can contact him about setting up a test.

I think if you are looking at hiring/contracting people you should ask them for photos of their work of specific designs and for them to state how long it took them, what products they use and a photo of their kit set-up for painting... At the least. Or... ask where they are painting next and go "check them out"... that would give you a real look at what they are doing.

Soooo would that also mean you within Canada as Metina had stated?

I could actually do tests anywhere - ANY FACE member can do it. But, yes, in Canada you can contact me about it. There are a couple members in Ontario too (not a lot of help there for out West...)

My test was done by a UK member at a conference in the US. So all you need to be able to do is hook-up with a member somewhere, sometime...

Thanks for all of that Shannon. Seriously, your post was very informative and for some reason it set my mind at ease...but I've said before, I'm not stable. I guess I'll have to keep practicing and then keep my eyes peeled for any FACE member sitings...

So any plans on being anywhere near the Mistake by the Lake in the next 4 months or so

Metina wrote:As I dable in the world of "acting as an agent" there is a lot to learn. I am wondering how do you classify a painter's skill level without being rude. Some jobs are fine with a newbie with a couple months experience and some need a higher level.

Any thoughts?

I think being up front to anyone who want to have you refer them would be the most helpful. "It is my job as an agent to have both happy clients and happy artists. In order to match the needs of of the client with the abilities with the artist, I will need you to be honest with me about your capabilities, and I will offer you the same honesty."

I would be devastated to go to a gig and I'm not talented enough to meet their needs. Compassionately hearing that a client is expecting a higher caliber of work, and then hearing precisely how I can raise my work to that level would be good for me. (It's all in how you spin it.) I had the opportunity to hear my friend speak to some semi-pro football players last weekend. She is trying to recruit one of them to be a promoter for, the others were interested, but she wasn't interested in them. She told them exactly why she wasn't ... "Your stance is too high so it's way too easy to knock you over. Practice lower...army crawl to the grocery store if you have to. If you want to pay me, I'll tell you which teams are looking and what they're looking for, but if I don't think you're what they're looking for, then I don't want my name associated with you." She was way up front, but the football guys understood and seemed to appreciate it.

FACE almost seems like a secret society... one must be tested and initiated by a known member.

I wonder if you are shown the secret handshake after the hazing ritual at dusk?

At dawn, not dusk. We aren't Vampires.

And it is not secret... http://www.facepaint.co.uk/

This is the membership application form http://www.facepaint.co.uk/files/pdf/FACE%20membership%20application%20information.pdf

It's not an initiation really... and the members doing the testing is simply a matter of paperwork and control. There are forms and photos that have to be taken and submitted etc. Members have all gone through the testing process themselves and are encouraging and helpful throughout... we want more members!!!

It is a non-profit volunteer run organization that requires its membership to operate at a certain level - not a union, but an industry association promoting a standard of work recognized as professional. It is based in the UK and that is where the strength is... gaining International members is something it recently has started to promote. The more that join the stronger the whole organization becomes in promoting standards across the world.

In brush stroke magazine there was an article about the test and how to pass it. With examples of good and bad work. Interesting. If you get a subscription you get the old magazines as well.

Like the idea about a secret handshake *lol*

Shannon Fennell wrote:

It's not an initiation really... and the members doing the testing is simply a matter of paperwork and control. There are forms and photos that have to be taken and submitted etc. Members have all gone through the testing process themselves and are encouraging and helpful throughout... we want more members!!!

Yup yup yup...that's what they all say. The sororities and frats that are sweet and innocent, helpful, and definitely don't initiate...then you find yourself blindfolded in the middle of the woods painted as a Christmas tree.


On the serious side though...how long does it take to reach the level of ability (generally), and are there people who are just not capable of ever getting there (ability-wise, not convenience/location wise)?

Well... that is pretty individual. Some people catch on to the sponging for applying even bases, blending the colours smoothly, get the hang of using the brushes to created lines that start and stop in a point... it isn't really that the bar is set all that "high" if you know what I mean.

When I first started I was NOT of acceptable standard. It took a few years, and a workshop with Olivier Zegers, for me to really get my techniques down, particularly the brushwork. I was improving, but being isolated as I am I wasn't able to "see" things in person.

The test paintings are timed - but you get 10 (TEN!) minutes for each one!! That is a very generous time allowance. It also goes by very fast! The point isn't to put pressure on people or require excess speed - by allowing more time than would normally be expected on the job it is hoped that almost everyone would be able to meet the basic standards.

I've seen some "beginners" that are more than capable of meeting the standard within weeks of starting. And, yes, I've seen people who have been doing this for "20 years" that would NOT be able to pass the test. And there are some famous face painters too whose style doesn't lend itself to actually passing the test even though they are about the best in the world...

Anyway... I've often "critiqued" photos for people before they decide to apply - and have been one of the screeners for the Advanced Level applicaitons... so I know what they are looking for. I'm happy to do this if anyone is interested ... just to get an idea of where they stand if they are interested in pursuing it at any time in the future.

Yes...but would you be gentle?

It is called "critique" for a reason... c'mon you land-lubbing scrubbie suck it up!!!

I know what you mean about isolation being a hindrance to developing skill. Being around other painters really amps up the creativity and makes you stretch. Having the luxury of watching a more experienced painter at work helps a lot. At first, you don't notice little detail things they do that make the difference between an ok face and an awesome face. As time goes on, you begin to notice those little details and have little "aha moments". This took way more than one sitting for me. Also, painting in an environment where you have the freedom to experiment a bit helps tremendously. Those gigs are hard to come by.

One minor detail that helped me a lot was taking the leap to take quick, clean, confident strokes with linework as opposed to slower, studied, meticulous lines. Those quicker crisp lines always look better even if they are not perfectly placed. The overall effect is more pleasing than the line done slowly.

I agree that it's not a matter of time so much as exposure and seeking to always improve. I saw a woman this summer who has not bothered to improve her skills. I am a much better painter and have been painting for a lot less time. I was told by another painter that her work looked the same last summer. It was really bad... poor thing.

I'm a lover... not a fighter?

But I can take it... just not yet...let me finish envying everybody else's work first...

I think the difference is that there are those of us who want to learn everything, try everything, improve, get better at everything as we go through life, and then there are those who don't see why they should bother... we all end up at the same place in the end, right?

Sad really. It is so much fun to learn something new and realize that you CAN do it!!

And even if you fail you can have fun trying!!

I think that's why that painter on the UK chat site blew me away. Everyone was trying to get her to understand her own situation and she had a "it's good enough because somebody wants to hire me" attitude. There are people here who think I'm an awesome painter, but I know that I have a long way to go and that's why I spend so much time here and I've forgotten what my kids look like. Okay, I'm not THAT bad, but I'm pretty bad, it's become an obsession and I'm amazed at how just tackling a face one time brings me to a different level of understanding that I wouldn't have had had I just taken the praises I'd received and let that be my stopping point.

It really isn't "just painting" for me...it's a way for me to challenge myself and I have enought paints to challenge myself for about 5 years! Who could ask for more?

And a way to see the world for those of us not lucky enough to sail from bar to bar!! I've been to the US, UK and Belgium because of face painting...

I get the "you're the best we've ever seen comments" too... and in all honesty what I am painting on the job in 3 minutes is pretty much the same as anyone else on here... there are enough of those who don't really care what they paint out there to make us all look exceptional... and isn't that great! They are doing US a favour by not caring!