Acting as an agent advice???

Hiya,

Up until now, I have just forwarded my extra jobs to a list of other painters in my area and left it up to them and the client to fill the job. Now I am thinking that I am just giving away business that I should at least be making a small commission on for all of my marketing efforts. So far, I have just been unwilling to take on the added stress.

1. When you get called for a job do you quote your rate and contact other painters with a rate the job is going for or do you ask the painters to give you a rate?

2. For billing, I was going to use what another agent I have worked for and ask the client to pay me, the artist to invoice me and then pay the artist. Does this work well for everyone?

3. Do you require a contract from the artist saying that they are representing you and can only give out your cards, no logos or self advertisement ect??

4. Any other advice you can offer or pitfalls to avoid would be so appreciated. I am not looking to overcharge clients and take half of the rate, but would like to at least recover the cost that brought the call to me in the first case.
-Metina

I require a no compete contract.. and a signed statement about attire and advertising and what not... I charge the client my normal rate and only provide a good painter that I know can do the job. I take a 20% cut.

I've only done this a few times.. and it is a lot of stress.. I know folks that do it all of the time, so maybe after you get a system worked out it gets easier? I don't know.. I prefer to avoid it all honestly.

I think after you get a few painters you trust and are always available will help. I tried to train someone and they hasn't worked out.

I only have one now that I am double booked for and had to go back to the client and explain that I was having a lot of trouble filling the job at the non-profit rate. The other job was a PPF and impossible to fill.

Luckily she has agree to pay more(which I was horrified to ask), but I feel now I can fill it.

My first foray into this has not been fun, but I have some huge jobs coming up at that I may put up a sign looking for some to train. Hopefully train a few and by the spring they may be up to doing some jobs.

It is stressful for sure though.

-Metina

Metina,
I am in the process of training 3 people, 2 of which live in Lexington KY and Frankfort KY. I had them sign a sub contractor agreement, in that agreement it states that they must represent my company and pass out my cards. I don't see them as competitors since they are outside of my local area. I take a 20% commission since I am spending time and gas training them. The other person is a friend that I am training and I do take a 20% commission from her as well. Now I have also been sending jobs that I can't do to two other local face painters that I have trained without taking a commission, why - because they will send me jobs. So it works out. I work with those that will reciprocate.

I haven't trained anyone else, but I often do work for my mentor clown... when I'm at her gigs, we hand out her cards. She usually takes 20% I think... although she charges whatever and pays me $60/hr. I'm ok with that arrangement and we kind of hand work back and forth if either of us is already booked a particular day... she doesn't ask for a cut on referrals, just if it's her booking and I'm there on her behalf.

I've trained a couple of others as well - everyone's signed an agreement and has to give out my cards etc. I pay them $40/hour, but I train for free, and it works for us.

Likewise, when I work for other companies, I hand out their cards. One pays me my full rate and doesn't take a cut (we hand out her cards, ergo any and all bookings from that event are hers), and the other takes a huge cut, but I don't work for her all that often.

If I am to provide supplies for the painters, I take a 27% cut. If they have their own supplies, I take between 15-20% depending on the rate for the event. For example, a non profit event would fall into the 15% as I want the other painters to be happy with their pay and continue to be available when I call.

Metina how did this work out for you?

So, from what I understood, if you hire someone as an independent contractor, you can make them sign a non-compete but you cannot enforce pretty much anything about the way they conduct the job (uniform, cards, what designs are offered, etc), otherwise, they are an employee.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee

I have a face painting assistant, on paper she's an independent contractor, so she does her own taxes and I can write her off and not do all the complicated stuff. But she uses my costumes, my cards, my paints, and we paint similar designs with our own style. Of course she 'could' dress how she wanted, use her own cards and all that, but she doesn't want to start a business since she's a full time nanny during the week. She's a friend, and I'm lucky too that we work so well together.

I don't know about calling up 'other painters' to take the gigs i can't make it too and charging them for it.

Before my assistant, i would refer clients to them if I couldn't make it with the understanding that they would do the same for me. But NOT one of them have EVER given me work or referrals, so I stopped doing that. The ONLY face painter I do that with is on in the next city (45min drive) if I get a client from out there who doesn't like my travel fee, i refer them to her, and she actually does the same for me for clients from my neighborhood. We don't charge each other a finders fee though.

One time I was contacted by another painter who was unable to do a gig and she was wondering if I could do it.  It was a 4 hour event that was 1.5 hours drive from my house.  She wanted to split her $60/hour rate pay me $120 total.  In other words, $30/hr each and she wasn't going to be there painting or even providing the paint.  

When I said it was too low, she did offer to give me $20 for travel and said she couldn't pay me any more that $30/hr since she had to make something too.  Seems to me that if she couldn't do the job, she didn't deserve to make anything.  I wouldn't have minded giving her a small finders or referral fee if the job paid my going rate but not 50% of her rate which was already much less my regular rate.

Kris5115 - That is wack! She really wanted to get half the money? Wow, some people. Your supply and your time, not her company, she shouldn't have asked for so much. Maybe a referral/finders fee at most of $20 I think.

I told her I knew a newer painter (she's a high-school girl from my church) who has helped at a couple of fp events at church and has been trained in proper hygiene. She is pretty good for a volunteer and I think $30/hr would be a fair rate for her if the other painter supplied the paint. She said no, that it had to be someone with experience.

I'm guessing she couldn't find anyone who would give up 4 hours on a Saturday from 10 - 2 (plus drive time) for $120.

I have done things all these ways being hired by

a. an agent who circumvented all the irs rules & included a non-compete clause--but from whom I received awesome training.

b. trusted FP friends who we just share gigs I need help on or if I am unavailable for, at the same rate we are hired for --- without compensation, knowing each other well enough that it won't result in client-wrangling. This has only burned me once (with the person in "a") Needless to say, these artists are all professional with their own kits & insurance.

c. being hired by friends/agents where they take a fee
for their troubles.

I prefer to do "b" when I share gigs as I hate hate hate paperwork & don't want to have to do 1090s at the end of the year.

I hate hate hate paperwork too! That's why my new career is as a face painter. I don't hate facework. I love it!