Friends and competitors: playing nice

Let's have a chat about the "rules" of competition as they apply to our industry. It's sometimes tricky to strike a friendly balance with the other painters in your area. The rules for us face painters are not the same as the rest of the buisness world- you can't just walk into a resturant where someone else is painting and wheel the job out from under them like you could if you were say- a linen service. We work together, many times rely on each other for referals and extra hands, and (like it or not) our industry is valued based on the overall showing of our peers. For those of you who live in an area with healthy competition- what are the tips? Have you had any conversations with fellow painters to create safeguards for working together? How have you handled situations where you feel a boundary has been crossed?

We have a great area to work in! I feel truly blessed to have been mentored by so many lovely artists & loving friends...

It seems we all try to keep each other in the loop about bad clients, fair pricing (avoiding price wars between those of us that tend to work together throughout the year by consistency in our pricing--although some of us are suckers for needy situations, and everybody know which ones to refer those to, hehe).

We share referrals, and usually only ask a gig fee between us (different than working for an agent) if there's been a lot of footwork, and the client is paid top dollar.

We know what to expect of one another professionally. (We've all worked for an agent who has a strict contract regarding, well, nearly everything: checking in way ahead of time to a gig,
attire, cleanliness, gum-chewing, cell phones, eating, etc. etc. etc.) That has really helped us all tremendously.

Because we truly do care about one another, if there is a situation, it's usually not a mountain to overcome...more just communication. Artists are generally sensitive people and pick up on things "not being quite right" & try to resolve it asap.

Hope that helps...

For me, I don't agent to other painters. We share business... If I'm overbooked I refer to them. If they're overbooked they refer to me. We hire each other for gigs needing multiple painters. I personally say, if someone asks for your card, you can give it to them & even put them out. Just don't act as if you're the head honcho on the gig. We treat each other as equals & brag on each others strengths. I have pretty good working relationships w/ 2 local face painters & am enjoying getting to know them. I also have a great relationship w/ an awesome balloon twister that goes to my church & my favorite painter to work w/ in Whitney (wmeventservices) & I can't wait for her to come back to Jax!!!!
You need to find people w/ your business ethic. Pay attention to the "little voice" in the back of your head that might say, "Not who you want to associate with." It's usually right...
If someone does something under minded, they're off my referral list & will not get jobs through me ever again(I had a clown company in my area give me a poor star rating even though we'd never talked, etc). Up till then I bragged on them(I saw them on a job & thought they were great). I know they were the ones that gave me the bad start rating because seconds before they'd looked at my page on the site & I received notification about it(I guess they thought their anonymity was safe...).

We get along with all but a couple of face painters and balloon twisters in the area. I still have to deal with the ones that have not great business practices because their officers in my local magic club. By the way the only face painting class they ever took I gave them before they stole a gig from us. All they say for themselves is it's just business. This all stems back to a charity event we both did and I made more money face painting than he did twisting. Then at the first clown convention I went to I won 3 awards, 2 for face painting and one for paradability. I will give them props they are outstanding clowns and balloon twisters but they will never equal us in face painting because they are not artists it's just something to make money with to them.

I have often wondered what the "rules" are as well. It's hard to strike a balance between "this is my bread and butter" and "you are my buddy". For the most part.. the painters I have worked with have been AWESOME... including a few that are on this forum. I have only been aggressive about working steadily for the last year or so. Before that, I only painted seasonally, and a party once or twice a year. Next year I intend to submit vendor apps to every state fair and carnival I can. I've researched the earliest times... ect. But, I wonder if it's "in bad taste" to do that if other vendors have been there painting in previous years??? I don't intend to steal gigs from people, but if those events are open... why not? Thoughts?

Good question. Is there such a thing as "turf?" There is a festival in my town that has a face painter who comes year after year from five states over. Now, should this be considered "her" festival because she has done it for years or "mine" because I'm local?
What if I mention at a jam amongst friends that I plan on hitting up some resturants and someone else says "that's a good idea- I think I'll do that too." Personally, I would be a little afronted if a friend jumped right in front of me in the resturant line. But how would you guys take it? Would you try to divy up the town or just cross your fingers and hope your not vying for the same Applebie's?

I know that I would be really upset if I lost my Halloween gig. I've worked really hard to try and make that one lucrative. So... if another painter swept in and tried to offer them more booth rent or something... that would be a LOT of money lost for me. Hard to say. That situation is a lot different than a festival or "vendor" booth situation though. It's a personal arrangement with a boutique. But, If they have open requests for vendor booths every year, it seems like it's first come first serve. I wouldn't try and "steal" a gig that I know my friend was also trying to get, but I actually don't know any of the painters that have been at previous town carnivals. I'm gonna have to say that a festival in YOUR town should be a good opportunity for you. If they have open vendor applications every year.. get in there! Anyone disagree with that? Would love to hear what people think. I can see both sides.

I am hired by other face painters in my area. I love them and have the most respect for them. They have become like mentors and have showed me tricks of the trade and welcomed me into this world of Face Painting. There is so much love in this industry/community its unreal. I feel honored to be a member of this group. We are all so different but share a passion that brings us together somehow. I think if you see someone is a regular at someplace you should respect that. But, i think fairs and festivals or open. some will have a few face painting spaces so i think that is first come first serve. If i know them personally I would prob not bother. Actually i know of someone who paints at a place i dreamed of painting when i first started. After i found out I completely let it go and im just as happy to know who works it there. Im in Orange County and there is so much opportunity. So i guess it would be different in a less populated area. I also think the newbys are not so aware of how "we" work with each other. I had no idea till I met other face painters and was invited to jams.

This is a loaded question because some of us do this full time and some it is a hobby...so...while I do play nice, I will never train another painter in my area again, I do not 'jam' in my area, and I will never backstab someone or take a gig by undercutting or bad mouthing someone...but this IS my income, and my 'fulltime' job. If I offer a better service and someone comes to me, I will not turn down a booking because someone else was there in the past. There is one PPF event that I have wanted since I started, and every year, I contact them to see of the other painter will be back, I have no issue with this, I am not trying to get rid of her....just want to be the first in line if she chooses not to take the event some year. When I offer a job out to another painter, they always know up front what I am charging the client...but if their hourly rate is only $50/hr, that is their choice of rate and that is what I pay them. I do a standing gig in an area where there are other painters, but when I took the event the first year, they had told me there had been no one there for a few years...I have now built the market with hard work, blood sweat and a few tears, so there is always more to meets the eye than simply territory. The only place I am not actively looking for work is in my hometown where I grew up, because that is where the woman who taught me lives and works. I owe her that respect. I will do gigs for friends and family, but everyone else who calls me from that town gets her name. If for whatever reason, they come back to me and still want to book me, I may consider it, because this is money...not friendship...but they would be silly because she is better than me and I would charge more because of the travel! LOL

PS, it also depends on your market too. I play my hands close to my chest at home. In the Southern US, face painting is crazy popular, but up here, every gig counts and we work hard to get the work we do. Not sure the difference, but I have seen it as I travel, and I have had other painters come into this market to work with me and they are shocked at the difference. ("What do you mean you don't need 6 painters at an event with 100 000 people per day through the gate?!?!?!) Perry Noia and the girls from Western Ontario will tell you the same thing...

This is an interesting thread. I don't know any face painters in my area, but I know that they are around. I apply for the fairs that I would like to work at, and I hope for the best. I think that is first come, first served, and while some fairs may have a "tradition" of hiring a particular painter, it may very well just be that no one else ever applies. I was "recruited" to apply for a festival that is in a very small town, and they did not have many vendors, so I applied, and it turned out to be very good for me, and now, they email me about deadlines, dates, etc, so I have the best opportunity to apply, but someone else could beat me to the punch, I guess.

Since I have not seen any others working, I am not sure where there are "regular" gigs. When I opened my business, I contacted a small artsy market place, to see if they ever hired face painters, and they already have someone, but put me on their list. They did feel me out to see if I would undercut her, and I am not going to do that, so I just let them know that if they decided to look elsewhere, I was interested.

I don't want to be cut throat, or take anyones regular job, but I am in business. It is interesting question, and it brings up questions that I did not know I had...

So, if I do ever happen to meet other painters in my area, if I give them jobs, or need a second painter, I pay them and the client pays me? I had no idea...can you guys who do this expound on this process for me?

This is a great discussion!

There are almost no painters in my area. There is a new girl within 30 minutes, but I think she just does it every once in a while. I do paint some in that area, but I was there first. Most of my work is in town or on the Ky side of the border.

Jody is the other painter, but she is about 1 1/2 hrs from me. I haven't done anything farther then 30 minutes. I wouldn't go into her area anyway

Recently, I was offered a future job. They had previously hired another person last yr that is 3 hrs away from me. Is that wrong? The lady offering the job, works at my kids school and does some orphanage stuff. She had no clue I did this for a living.

This is an open job market, business...when a client comes to you it is an opportunity for you...not a sin against another painter. Emotions get involved and people forget it is business. I would never go to a business I know a pro painter is working and try to take it....however there is no turf where I can't work...we're not dogs...we are business people.
Show respect and simply fall back on the old rule..."Do unto others...." I was the first painter/children's entertainer in my area over 30 years ago...should that mean NO one else can work this small area? Of course not, it MEANS I have to stay on my toes and be the best all around, setup, costuming, business skills, people skills...and always deliver more than I promise.
There are 6 others here now, but at this time are not competition for me. Certainly the time is coming a much younger and very talented painter is going to come a long and pick up part of the market, but I'll be fine because the market is always growing and it would take them years to catch me on all the equipment and experience it takes to do this profitably. I do believe that each time any painter does a good job all the way around not just their art it creates more of a market for everyone because more people that have a positive experience will be willing to pay to have the experience themselves. Can't find the original right now but I work by the Disney quote I heard years ago, "Do what you do so well that those who see you do it bring others back to see what you do". Not quite a direct quote but you get the meaning. Remember this when you have angry mothers to deal with, unreasonable event planners and unruly children.

Well said skj!

Reading this I learned a lot. One thing I forgot to mention in my post, that I beleive has helped us all play nicely, is that when a client (long-standing, one that hires regularly) gets referred to another painter, that the referred painter that takes the job is expected not to "steal" the client next year, even if they call them lst, but to sweetly ask, "Oh, is ___ busy again this year?" or somehow bring the original artist back into the loop before assuming they are ok to book. (This doesn't go for lst time referrals, of course).

Instead of having individual class reunions the town where my Daughter graduated from has a town wide reunion every year we worked it 2 years before the others showed up. We can't work the 4th of July festival though because that's in the time I work at the park and if I can make it 5 more seasons they will name something after me. When they came they did the 4th clowning around and prebooked the next reunion even though the comity doesn't put out venders apps. till Aug. Of coarse their jumping on stage and clowning which means they don't have the nonstop lines we have when it's good weather. Guess we'll have to wait till the planners see how reliable these people are if the weather is not great.

This is an interesting thread. I'm surprised by some of the animosity I've sensed from other painters in my area. (Some of you may remember my rant from a couple months ago). I understand that this is a business, but I think it's important to conduct business morally. If there are multiple painters at an event, they should all play by the rules set forth by the organizer. I would hope we could all be civil to each other and respect each others' business models. There is nothing wrong with healthy competition, and I hope that I can be friends with other painters despite that.

My best painting friend is Denise (on this forum), and I think part of what makes it easy for us is that we operate in totally different areas of the state. This way, we can refer clients to each other and even paint together at events without directly competing with each other.

I think skj is right...the Golden Rule/Reciprocity is the easiest way to test whether or not you are stepping on toes or not.

The best model I've had in my past is when I worked for a real estate brokerage. We were all friendly competitors. We all marketed the "For Sale by Owner" lists, had ads in the home magazines, contacted our friends and associates, etc. and we even had to refer business if we couldn't handle it or it was out of area.

These people were also my friends and we'd do things together and play Bunco and go to training meetings and show each others listings. So that is what I'm hoping for. Is it possible? Maybe not without a broker to keep it all straight and be there to complain to...

So, maybe we should start a list of okay and not okay....

Being invited to paint with another painter at a gig and doing a great job in hopes that you'll be invited back next year. OKAY
Pulling the organizer aside at the event and saying "You should call me next year. I'll give you a better rate." NOT OKAY

Noticing on Facebook that a fellow face painter was overwhelmed at an event and wished they had more painters and you say "Invite me next year, I'd love to help." OKAY
Noticing they were overwhelmed and sending a note to the organizer and saying "I think she was overwhelmed. I have 10 painters at my disposal and can handle that event." NOT OKAY

A fellow painter mentions a big client that they've been emailing back and forth at a jam you are attending. Congratulating them and sharing your business card if they need help at any of big client's events. OKAY
...Sending a marketing piece to big client to try and "catch" them before they book the other painter. NOT OKAY

I feel like if YOU didn't find the client; If they didn't call you directly; If you were invited by another painter then they are NOT YOUR CLIENT! Notice I didn't say: You are a better painter, you have lower prices, you have more contacts, you have better products....those don't count as reasons to take a client.

I think most people know when it is stealing or not. The reality is we'll always have those kind of people in any business and so we have to keep contacting our clients and making sure that they remember us when it comes time to hire us again. It's not fair but it's a reality.

D.

I am glad someone created this thread. I have been trying to break into the local market, and haven't had much luck yet. I've been sizing up the local "competition" and it looks like I am a contender, skill-wise.
My friends think I should contact the businesses the other local fpers paint for, and try to get the jobs, but I won't do it.
I have, however, met a very nice lady, who is about the same skill level as me, and we decided to use each other if we need an extra painter. I was the one who made first contact, and basically made up this rule:
If I get a client who needs two painters, I'll call her. If we get the job, we promote my business, because the client was mine to begin with.
If SHE gets a client who needs two painters, the job is hers and we promote her business.
Hopefully, we will need each other in the near future and the business relationship will go well.

Denise and Ottergirl.. that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Have you experienced the "not okay" scenarios? I don't think I could live with myself if I conducted my business that way. rthling... I was really lucky to meet someone that I struck up a relationship with like that as well, and she is one of my besties still. She moved out of state, but I would do anything for her.

This is a great thread. I learned many years ago about competition and how someone can smile in your face while they are stabbing you in the back. In my area there are a few really top notch artists. Unfortunately there are so many people who paint for free or use acrylics for so much cheaper than we charge. It is true that having great artists around helps people see how awesome face painting can be. Some of my friends are amazed when I share photos. The photos posted on this forum would surely blow their minds!
I often network with people who are outside my market so there is no feelings involved. We share freely and openly. No drama. We refer clients due to distances. I am so grateful for all of the generous and kind people I have befriended over the years, including on this forum. Love the OKAYs and NOT OKAYs, or as my son would call them NOKAYS

I've found a small but good group of painters in my area. We have been referring to each other when we're already booked and it works out well. We all have slightly different ways of approaching gigs which helps differentiate us to clients. I'm always excited to meet new painters in my area!

We had a mini jam this fall to play with special effects makeup before halloween. One painter organized a body painting fashion showcase and invited us all to participate. We cheer each other on!

Some of the other painters have been around for a longer time than I and know of others who have refused to play nicely or who have poor reputations with clients. I don't refer clients to these people nor do I contact them about local opportunities.

At the end of the day, business is business and I can't wear my heart on my sleeve and choose to get butthurt because someone else saw an opportunity and chased it - it simply inspires me to do better next time! As adults, I think it's important to avoid the word "fair" when dealing with business. It's tainted with personal attributions which don't serve to view a situation objectively.

I think it's very important to use social media and forums wisely. It's not smart to post about big opportunities coming up that aren't set in stone to a vast group of people who may or may not be in your area. Regardless of whether or not it would be "stepping on toes" or "rude" to "steal" a gig - it's not wise to post about it in the first place! I share these things with my inner circle of friends, but as much as I love having this forum as an advice board, I don't confuse someone I haven't met with a good friend who has my best business interests in mind. Businesses have non-disclosure agreements for a reason - competition is everywhere. Be smart in what you post and discuss with potential competition, and I think you'll have better success, a better working relationship with more people, and fewer hurt feelings in the long-term.

No matter what your belief system is we're put on this earth to interact with each other in a positive way. The moto for mine and my Daughter's company is " Changing the world one smile at a time." Negativity is not something you should hold onto it will only make you sick. I do agree with gilded cat you shouldn't share everything on the forum but I'm not the type of person that when I see another painter in another part of the country can use a tip where they really need something I'll private message them hey you can get this here online real cheap. That way there is no run on the online store or bidding war on ebay. We have to sure some so there will be a next generation to paint when we're gone.

I'm in a very small market where I am the big fish (dog, horse, moose... whatever ) I work hard to get repeat clients, and do my best to keep them. If they don't contact me, I contact them "to check the dates for this year as I don't want to book someone else on their date!" Most of the time I get the booking confirmed.

I have one or two that I "lost" to FREE painters of some description... annoying but not the end of the world.

It is the client's choice - no matter what I think about the job being "mine" if they want to do something else, hire someone else, it is completely their choice.

I market/promote where I want to get work and frankly, I don't really consider if there was someone there already as there are no "professionals" working in this area that I know about that offer the same as I do.

I wouldn't undercut someone or operate underhanded but I don't believe that providing promotional material to potential clients about my services is in anyway encroaching on another professional's "territory". I'm just providing options.

My thoughts: be the best you can be, and don't be ashamed to promote or market yourself to a potential client, regardless of whether or not that client may or may not have employed another face painter in the past.
Shannon nailed it: the client is the one to make the decision. I'm not advocating being underhanded in any way, or overtly undercutting... but sheesh, if you believe that your service is professional and reliable, that you work hard to paint as well as you can... I honestly don't understand why you shouldn't be approaching a potential client to provide them with the option.

Of course, things may well get tricky when you start to develop personal relationships with other painters that may be able to compete in your area. I can't say I know of any working around here regularly, so I guess I am lucky in a way. Anyone who has been doing it in the past has either packed up and moved on, or was never doing it in a professional way in the first place.

BUT, i have worked at events/festivals with other painters also working (from outside the area, or volunteer mums/teens) ... and I just did the best work I could do, acted like a professional and handed out cards as usual.
What they did was up to them. This is my business and I will work it like one (in the most positive sense)