How Long is Too Long?

Several people here have said that if your line is too long you are not charging enough. Sounds reasonable, but how long is too long...5 kids...10 kids...20 kids? Or is it the length of time it takes for a kid to get from the back of the line to your chair? How long a time is too long for that?

I am going to have to disagree heartily with that statement. If your line is too long, then you need to get another painter in to maximize your success and help with booth rent! Why would you want to charge so much that you turn potential clients away? I would say charge what your designs are worth, then make sure your "booth" is properly staffed to accomodate the event.

Most people don't want to wait more than 15 minutes. That's probably only about 4 or 5 kids for most faces, so you really have to have several people painting when you know it's going to be busy. I did the number on the hand thing at the parties I did yesterday and that worked really well. I know it's not the solution for ppf events, but it's great for parties. I never do festivals without having at least 1 other painter with me, and usually a glitter tattoo artist as well.

When you are a solo act it isn't always possible to have the additional painters available - and you can only paint at your top speed, so, price can help thin out the lines.

As I don't charge PPF people perceive it as "free" painting and I have had people wait for 2+ hours in line on a regular basis... and one time in particular 4-5 hours (it was mad I tell you, MAD!!!)

I do NOT look at the lines. I don't want to know. If they choose to wait that is their decision. I put up signs that explain how long it takes to paint a face, and that it is up to them to determine how long the wait will be, and then decide if it is worth it. (samples are on my resources page)

I am in the same boat Shannon although I do do PPF..The lines can rediculous..The last big gig I had 2 painters and still the people were lining up for over an hour...all day..NUTS..I also just carry on..What can u do..if the want to wait..AWESOME...

Kat- I paint by myself, because there is no one else around here to work with. I've had people wait up to an hour. Only one person has complained, bit I noticed they still stayed in line and waited.

Shannon- That's a good idea to post info on how long it takes and let them figure it out. I'll check out your resources page. I don't look at the line either, unless I'm nearing the end of the day and want to number their hands so I can get out of there!

I have a large event at Kansas City's Union Station this weekend and I have a feeling I will be painting for 12 hours on Sat. and 10 on Sun. Although she doesn't paint, I am bringing a helper , just so I can take a break now and then to use the restroom!

Kat's FacesForFun wrote:I am going to have to disagree heartily with that statement. If your line is too long, then you need to get another painter in to maximize your success and help with booth rent! Why would you want to charge so much that you turn potential clients away? I would say charge what your designs are worth, then make sure your "booth" is properly staffed to accomodate the event.

Most people don't want to wait more than 15 minutes. That's probably only about 4 or 5 kids for most faces, so you really have to have several people painting when you know it's going to be busy. I did the number on the hand thing at the parties I did yesterday and that worked really well. I know it's not the solution for ppf events, but it's great for parties. I never do festivals without having at least 1 other painter with me, and usually a glitter tattoo artist as well.

15 minutes for 4 or 5 kids? I don't think I'm ever going to whip off that many decent faces in that amount of time.

I think I'm realistic... I honestly have to factor in so much more than just how long it takes to complete a design from start to finish.

First, it takes time for each child to get settled in the chair correctly... the clock begins ticking.
Then, they may know what they want but can't express it and sometimes you have to pry it out of them... tick, tick, tick.
Next comes gathering the correct tools... tick-tock, tick-tock.
Prepare the paint, spray the cake, etc, ... tick, tick tick some more.
After that you adjust their face and begin the design... tickety-tock.
But somebody speaks or a dog barks... the child jerks their head... you re-adjust their position and get back to work.... the little hand keeps going.
Dropped your brush... ya big klutz... new, clean brush.. the tick grows louder.
Someone always comes up and talks to you... "excuse me..."
Hurry up with those stupid tiger stripes - if Perry can do it, so can you!...DONG!

All those little things take up time... it seems no matter how hard I try, there are just too many unknowns that pop up constantly. I can say I painted a face in X amount of minutes, but all those unknowns add up.

Is there anyone who sees things this way, too? I don't want to constantly worry about the people in line and I didn't get into this business so I could turn out fast sub-par work. I want to create fantasy faces (my business name, btw), not a faster, less detailed version of fantasy faces.

My main problem is not being able to find the pinnacle of a perfect painting station that is customized to my specific needs. I do what I can do with what I have right now... but not having an organized station makes even more seconds tick away.

That is why I am determined to kind a camp kitchen that will work for me as a sit-down painter.

And, one thing I have learned these last several festivals... if people want quality face painting from a professional with a professional set- up, they are going to pay for it.

I say, charge what your work is worth, not what you think the area will support. People pay extra money for a larger fries or drink at the drive-thru no matter what the average wage earner in the area takes in.

I agree Miss Ronnie. I actually have a REALLY hard time "editing" myself when my line gets long. A lot of people can modify and get through them faster but I just can't do it. I know what it CAN look like, and I hate to take away highlights... starbursts... dots... ect. lol. 3-4 minutes is my average when I'm doing ppf because I do a lot of quick small cheek art faces too, and those take 60 seconds. After 6 years, I have some quick, cute cheeks that I have down to a science. My more detailed faces take 5 or 6 minutes usually.
I guess my point was that I look at a long line and I see opportunity. I know a LOT of painters in my area, and I like to bring in extra people when the event can support it.

I thought I was the only one who doesn't edit themselves too well!!!!

Almost forgot something else that slows me down... paint that dries so fast outdoors that you can't even get your base sponged on without constantly spraying that darn cake!! Grrrrrrrr!

As of today, I now have a line manager... actually I have 3 that will be doing different events with me. It will save a good deal of time and frustration on my part not to have to deal with making change or worrying about who is next in line or constantly telling the kids to stand behind the stop sign.

Yay! Miss Ronnie. Taking charge. You will like it a lot better with a line manager. That is another reason I like Starblends. Already dried out!

D.

I have 3 teenagers that are going to take turns.... my own son is the only one who is NOT enthusiastic about it!!!!

I'm assuming you are talking PPF? If the client is paying then the line will be long, it just will.... because it's "free". I do encourage clients to hire at least 2 face painters for the larger gigs. If I'm doing PPF (I usually have me & my daughter painting) but I try to have the line about 5 families deep. A good price is always having both chairs filled & not too much wait. If you have a huge, long line, you're probably too low in price. I'm trying Denise Colds $5/face method & I'm going to try & get my tent set-up as close to what she did & hope it ups my sales....

I do a few different things to help with big line ups. Ive had the 3hour line ups and they suck, so this last 1 1/2 years ive been wrking on something.

First thing, I offer a modified board with minimal choices (15-20designs), that are simplistic designs. No liquid bling or jewels, just glitter.

Second thing, Ive developed a system of appointment times. So the most a person will stand in line at a large event, (10,000 people) is an hour. The parents come and register for their appointment time, get a stamp or arm band, then come back at designated time. No waiting all day and missing the other events.

Criss wrote:
Second thing, Ive developed a system of appointment times. So the most a person will stand in line at a large event, (10,000 people) is an hour. The parents come and register for their appointment time, get a stamp or arm band, then come back at designated time. No waiting all day and missing the other events.

What a good idea!!

Tried something like that here... complete and utter waste of time. Of about 80 tickets that were given out in the first 20 minutes, NO one showed up for THEIR time and those that did come back were no where near the time on their tickets.

I painted everyone in the "stand-by line" as seeing as NO ONE with a ticket was there I need to paint someone...

This was a large paid event where they wanted to eliminate waiting time... didn't work.

I offer two speeds to clients - regular 4-7 miniute designs, or, "Fast Faces" which are all under 4 minutes. They choose in advance and that is the display I put up. I will do requests by keep them to the speed limit.

The appointment idea is interesting--kind of like the fast pass at Disney. I think you would definitely want a line manager to handle all of that, however. My lines are often really long, and it's always hard for me to cut it off when I know the time is up. At one event, the time was up and the people left in line offered to pool their money to pay me for another hour. It made me feel great, but also want to deck the event coordinator who didn't believe me when I said to book 4 hours. Fortunately, the CEO of the company walked by and someone in line told him what was going on. He offered to pay me out of his own pocket to stay. There were cheers. It was awesome.

Anyway, as far as line goes, I charge what I charge (and it's lower than many painters) because I want to make face painting as accessible to as many people as possible. In my area, there are a lot of families with tons of kids, and they just can't afford $15 face painting, so I don't go higher than $10, and most designs are $5. My line is always long, but I just take me time and do each design the way I always do. People wait because they see that what they are getting is worth it. When the kid lights up after looking in the mirror, the long wait is usually forgotten. I'd rather just enjoy what I'm doing than stress out over moving things along as fast as possible. Don't get me wrong, I do control the options available by limiting it to my faster designs, but I still do my best to give people what they see in the picture.

I would have to say "too long" will depend on your comfort level with how long your line is. Does looking at it make you panic? Does the amount of complaining that you hear about the wait bother you? Then raise your prices to get those complainers out of your line to begin with, the people that are left are the ones that feel that you are worth the money AND the wait.

You don't have to fit everyone's budget, we provide a luxury service, not a necessity.

Dear Santa,

This year for Christmas I would like my very own Perry Noia. All my face painting problems will then be taken care of in a timely, matter-of-fact manner and no one can yell at a cute clown with pink hair.


Love,
Miss Ronnie

p.s. I'm probably on the naughty list, but I'll try to be better!

Miss Ronnie -
Where's the 'like' button?

Perry -
I was looking at something up youtube and my toddler saw a clip of you. She was rolling! I find that some of the clowns in the area aren't 'child friendly', but your routine was definitely kid centered!

can I say how much I love you guys?

I have a full lesson plan worked out for a class called "How Not to Scare the Crap Out of People While in Clown." Can't wait to teach it somewhere.... anyone?

Yeah, I work in a medical environment. There are two clowns that come to visit the children. We sign in at the same computer station. I've frequently caught them talking in high pitched squeaky voices and miming to each other when it's just the adults around.

I agree with everybody! I'm having an off day...

FIRST...
If you've set your prices to reflect what you're worth (sorry, but what we tend to think we're worth is usually FAR less than what we're actually worth).

SECOND...
Determine how long you'd like to spend painting each face. Factor in how much time you, as a parent would be satisfied waiting for a great painting, but don't let THAT be too strong of an influence because the last person in a long line will always be the person who has waited the longest...it doesn't matter if you're painting $2 faces or $8 faces...you can't stop people from getting in your line so your line will always grow and if you have more painters, it will grow faster because there will be a perception of a short wait because there are two painters.
Can you say conundrum?

THREE...
Know your foot traffic and level of patron interest. Lets face it...if everyone thinks $5 is a fair price...everybody will get in line and nothing short of attaching a jetback to your head, hands and every child will make that line move faster than you're able to paint. If you are charging less than $5...honey hang up your brushes and ignore the line that will wrap around the planet twice...or raise your rates to reflect your worth.

I did one...and only one event with a $3, 6, and $10 price point for painting... the majority chose the $3 design and I darned near broke my neck trying to get through the line...it was like a 2 hour wait! Now I start at either $5 or $8 depending on the event and while I have a long line, the line is full of people who value my work enough to WANT to pay $5/$8 for it and are willing to wait. I've only had a couple of people complain about the wait and one was so vocal I wanted nothing to do with her...so of course, I put on my flame thrower backpack and burned the crap out of that bridge when I assured her that I'd be right with her and I promised to speed up and paint her kid lightening fast. Naturally, she shut up... I was hoping she'd leave...but you can't win them all.

I agree that having a partner in paint isn't always an option ... which is why the best strategy is to "cull" the herd with your price structure, that way you have mostly pleasant, appreciative people! The best compliment I even got was made to another mom who was starting to gripe about her kids wanting to spend "all day" in a face painting line, the (I assume) husband said, "yeah, but it's worth it!".
That thare be what I like ta call 'validation'!

Perry Noia wrote:can I say how much I love you guys?

I have a full lesson plan worked out for a class called "How Not to Scare the Crap Out of People While in Clown." Can't wait to teach it somewhere.... anyone?

I'm re-reading "It" by Stephen King right now... Pony up the "How to not scare" video and stay away from orange pom-pom buttons!

Lady Jayne.. I fully agree.. I really need to cut my $3and $4range at big festivals.. I find that those designs however make me the most money as they takes seconds to do but have great impact. I struggle to charge $5 for something thats takes under a minute to do. I need to get over that. Mmm I see alot of work ahead redesigning my board.

Dear Santa,

If you can, could it be possible to bring me a Lady Jayde, too.... and a Shannon Fennel (the newer model, if you please) in my stocking...

Still trying to be good,
Miss Ronnie

freedspirit wrote:Lady Jayne.. I fully agree.. I really need to cut my $3and $4range at big festivals.. I find that those designs however make me the most money as they takes seconds to do but have great impact. I struggle to charge $5 for something thats takes under a minute to do. I need to get over that. Mmm I see alot of work ahead redesigning my board.

Think about it, though ... food vendors charge (and quickly sell) $5 for zeppoles, funnel cakes, drinks, etc. They can move a line really quickly and take in the bucks. So if you are talented enough to produce a great design in a minute, and it's eye-pleasing and fun for the child, then that minute in your chair (and YOU) are worth every one of those five dollars. Beam lots of big smiles and a little chatter into the air while you do it, finish it up with a delightful compliment while they peek in the mirror, and you have delivered a great service.

Next!

(And spend at least one of those quick designs on a funnel cake for you! )